Posted on 11/15/2004 3:56:58 PM PST by Kaslin
LONDON (Reuters) - A television pool report by U.S. network NBC said on Monday that a U.S. Marine had shot dead an unarmed and wounded Iraqi prisoner in a mosque in Falluja.
The Iraqi was one of five wounded prisoners left in the mosque after Marines had fought their way in on Friday and Saturday. There was no immediate comment from the Pentagon (news - web sites) on the report.
U.S. forces launched an offensive one week ago on Falluja, and have gained overall control of the formerly rebel-held city, although scattered resistance remains.
The pool report by NBC correspondent Kevin Sites said the mosque had been used by insurgents to attack U.S. forces, who stormed it and an adjacent building, killing 10 militants and wounding the five.
Sites said the wounded had been left in the mosque for others to pick up and move to the rear for treatment. No reason was given why that had not happened.
A second group of Marines entered the mosque on Saturday after reports it had been reoccupied. Footage from the embedded television crew showed the five still in the mosque, although several appeared to be already close to death, Sites said.
He said one Marine noticed one of the prisoners was still breathing.
A Marine can be heard saying on the pool footage provided to Reuters Television: "He's fucking faking he's dead. He faking he's fucking dead."
"The Marine then raises his rifle and fires into the man's head. The pictures are too graphic for us to broadcast," Sites said. No images of the shooting were shown in the footage provided to Reuters.
The report said the Marine, who had returned to duty after being shot in the face a day earlier, had been removed from the field and was being questioned by the U.S. military.
Sites said the shot prisoner "did not appear to be armed or threatening in any way."
John O'Neill (Unfit for Command) is a lawyer. Maybe we should get him to defend this young Marine. He could call John Kerry to the stand and quiz him about shooting a kid in the back as he is running away. Then he will ask him if he got a court-martial or a medal?
Case Closed
We have ALREADY put our men in grave danger by not bombing the sand out of Fallujah (and others) in our mis-begotten attempt to fight a "humane" war and minimize civilian casualties. That can only work if the F'n civilians assist us in freeing THEM!
The F'n Iraqis are, if anything, facilitating the terrorists, if not actually helping them. Shoot to kill until you are ordered to stand down!
BRAVO!
What are you talking about. Sure it is. You may not like the ROE or political situation, but it is a war.
Actually, it is battle in the WOT, just like Vietnam was a battle of the cold war.
Thanks for your service, but I dont understand your perspective.
I heard Ollie North say that and it is disturbing as I am afraid it will become the story. But I'm not sure the Iraqis will look at it the way our media does.
The people of Fallujah, as has been reported, are sick of the insurgents, and I'm not sure they will see this as a bad thing. This is not Abu Graib as these insurgents/terrorists are largely not Iraqis and the Iraqi people are sick of being terrorized by these insurgents.
So even though this will get frenetic and gleeful coverage by our media, what is important is how the Iraqis, the people of Fallujah see it, and I don't think they'll see it as being all that bad that one less terrorist/insurgent from another country is killing and terrorizing the citizens of their city.
At least I hope that is how they perceive it.
Can we be sure the prone "insurgent" was alive before being shot?
Wonder what the embedded lib reporters would be saying if they were on the lines during WWII?
If it wasn't for libs, we would used a lot of MOAB's by now,and the bstrds remaining would be tending their camels and repairing their tents.
VISUALIZE NO LIBERALS.
You have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. A higher concentration of airpower has been used in the last 7 days in Fallujah then at any other point in OIF. We have bombed and strafed that city around the clock using everything from 2000 pound bombs to 20mm canons. Opinions are fine, but if you don't know the facts than just STFU.
The WW II Marines stopped taking prisoners in the Pacific Islands --- because the wounded Japs wound use grenades to blow up Medics trying to help them. The Japanese were taught that surrender was dishonorable, and dying for the Emperor was honorable.
I have read this and was told this by a combat veteran who was there.
Maybe the next to be shot should be the embeds? this is war baby....
Thank you for that idiot reporter's email. I am soooooo freakin' PO'ed at these anti American reporters. Especially when they owe their freedom & pathetic excuse for an existence to these and past marines. I basically told him to STFU and get outta the way!
I would go easy since airpower was used sparingly. Long stick bombing like we did in afghan would have saved lives AND bad situations like these.
If true, that was a spectacularly foolish move on the part of the marine that will no doubt end up in a court martial."
If it does, Kerry needs to be prosecuted for his murder.
This is not WWII. To deny that times, standards and expectations about military conduct have changed, like them or not, is foolishness. You might want to see post #431 and 437 this thread.
Prairie
I'm not sure what you are talking about. Airpower was used sparingly where, and what is "long stick bombing"?
| 8 | “In general, I don't think the terrorists in Fallujah qualify as illegal combatants if they carry their arms openly.” |
For all the use the term "illegal combatant" gets, it is not found in any of the four Geneva Conventions, nor their subsequent "Protocols". However, the term came in to general use as a necessary way to describe those that are not specifically covered combatants in GC III.
Note in the GC III excerpt below, that "carrying arms openly", is only one of several requirements, including the wearing of uniforms.
--Boot HillCONVENTION III
Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, Geneva, 12 August 1949.Part I. General Provisions
Art. 4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, [must] fulfil the following conditions:
(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;(3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
(4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization, from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.
(5) Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.
(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
Tell it to Ollie North. He just said it must be investigated, that it SHOULD be. Even tho his sympathies are with our combat guys, and this guy, he was very clear what ought to happen.
The media has us by the throat, and they'll use anything that even looks suspicious as evidence of widespread war crimes. That's the reality. I was in Tikrit when the first pictures of Abu Ghraib appeared on Al Jazeera. I can't overemphasize how shocking that was to us, because we'd been heavily conditioned to, in so many words, do nothing that would look bad on TV. You could just feel what was coming next.
And it came. As careful and delicate as we'd been before, the clamps on what we could and couldn't do got insanely tighter, and it was driven 100% towards minimizing negative media coverage.
If anything, these standards may have been lowered because of vietnam.
many marines have died going house to house, via booby traps, etc - when bombs could have been used. not carpet bombing, precision strikes. Michael Savage covered this exact same topic tonight on his show, call in and tell him to STFU too.
From your fingers to God's eyes.
I pray it is so. That Marine may not be over 22. He is someones son, brother, husband, boyfriend. It just seems so wrong to have to "punish" him to prove a public relations arguement that we follow the ROE. I know that he Marines have a very high honor code of their own, thats what makes them special guys and I have no doubt that this young guy would stand up tall to whatever the punishment.
But, to punish someone for show, like some have said may be necessary is wrong. As has been said a hundred times on this thread - that Marine COULD NOT HAVE KNOWN if the guy was booby trapped or has a grenade. He could have saved the lives of the other Marines and the reporter and I bet we never would have heard about that. All in a days work.
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