Shedding light on Islam (A Moderate's Perspective)

The Memphis Commercial Appeal ^ | November 14, 2004 | Bima Said

[Jan Hus]

This propaganda article is probably written for a gullible audience who do not have any basic knowledge of U.S.History much less World History and have a optimum reading level of a 12 year old and/or are functionally illiterate.

The author states:

1."History provides many examples of Muslim tolerance toward other faiths, such as when the caliph Omar entered Jerusalem in the year 634, Islam granted freedom of worship to all religious communities in the city.
<b Yeah, You bet! as long a yearly indemnity was paid and any worship other than islam was conducted surreptitiously in back alleys.Also,try getting into Saudi Arabia with a Israeli entry permit stamped in your passport and a couple of Arabic New Testaments in your suitcase.And how about asking Coptic Christians in Egypt,Christians in Pakistan,Indonesia,Yemen,and any Arab Christians that have not immigrated to the U.S in Palestine about "islamic TOLERANCE"

2."In Islam, there is no racism and everyone is considered equal in the sight of God, the only difference being in one's piety."

Tell that to the Dark Skinned People of the Southern Sudan and the Darfur Region.

[processing please hold]

He can ply that rhetoric over at the DUmmies site....they'll buy it hook, line and sinker.

But he won't find many takers here where intelligence and logic overcome islamic-fascism.

[Chena]

Here's an article I came across awhile ago.

Who Should We Love? Who Should We Hate?
Urban Peace-Making, The Good Samaritan and Muslim-Christian Relationships

The Four Questions

True Christians and true Muslims cannot and will never come to any real agreement. To Muslims, Christians, while people of the book, are perceived as still in the "realm of war", not yet submitted to Allah. To Christians, Muslims, though respected, are perceived as unbelievers yet to be converted to Christianity. The differences between the two faiths are enormous, vital and substantial. A bible-believing Christian cannot follow Mohammed or agree with many of the teachings of the Koran. A true Muslim cannot believe in the Trinity or the incarnation. These are impossibilities. Our two faiths are irreconcilably different. Our two faiths have been at war for centuries and our two faiths will always seek to convert each other. True believers in each camp will always see the other as sinners, outside the faith, and on their way to Hell. Given that biblical Christianity and fundamentalist Islam will never agree, and will always see each other as sinners then:

Should we kill someone because they are a sinner, outside our faith, and going to Hell?
Should we walk on by and let someone die, say in a car accident, because they are a sinner, outside our faith, and going to Hell?
Should we refuse to spend money on someone to help them recover back to health if they are a sinner, outside our faith, and going to Hell?
Should we hate our neighbor because they are a sinner, outside our faith, and going to Hell?
In short what is the realm of people I should love? And what is the realm of people a holy and righteous person should hate and detest ? Are the boundaries of my love determined by the boundaries of my nation, ethnic group, customs, practices or my faith? Who should I show mercy to and who should I show no pity to at all?

The Story

These were also the urgent questions of Jesus' day when relationships between Jews, Romans and Samaritans were tense. Jews saw Romans as unclean Gentile dogs and despised the Samaritans as corrupted, idolatrous apostates. No good Jew would talk with a Samaritan. Romans saw Jews as stubborn troublemakers and Samaritans generally hated Jews and would not give anyone hospitality who was heading towards Jerusalem. In the midst of this irreconcilable religious tension Jesus told the following story:

(Luke 10:25-37 NKJV) And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" {26} He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?" {27} So he answered and said, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.'" {28} And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live." {29} But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" {30} Then Jesus answered and said: "A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. {31} "Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. {32} "Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side. {33} "But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion. {34} "So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. {35} "On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.' {36} "So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?" {37} And he said, "He who showed mercy on him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."

A certain lawyer asks Jesus what should he do to inherit eternal life.
Jesus points the lawyer to the Jewish Law and asks him what it says.
The lawyer replies that eternal life comes if we love God with all our heart mind and strength and our neighbor as ourselves.
Jesus replies - Correct! Now go and do this and you will live.
The lawyer hedges, it looks too hard a task, too big a job. So like a good lawyer he goes for the definition and asks "Who is my neighbor?". The real question being "who do I have to love?" or in the context of the original question about eternal life "Who do I have to love in order to inherit eternal life?" The hidden plea is "Tell me I can have eternal life by just loving a few people, give me a definition that lets me off the hook so I can justify myself."
So Jesus tells a story about a well known and hazardous bit of road between Jerusalem and Jericho, the highway probably just outside where they were talking.
A Jew is robbed and badly beaten and left for dead, the clergy that were supposed to look after him and show compassion (a priest and a Levite) just walk on by. Jesus clearly thinks this behavior is wrong.
Then a Samaritan comes along and has compassion on the Jew (who to him is a sinner, outside the Samaritan faith and going to Hell)
The Samaritan does not kill the man but instead heals the wounded Jew.
The Samaritan does not leave the Jew to die but bandages him and puts him on his own donkey, so the wounded man rode while the Good Samaritan walked.
The Samaritan pays money to the innkeeper to take care of this man who is outside of the Samaritan faith.
The Good Samaritan promises to come back and check and see how he is going and to pay any additional expenses.
The Samaritan does not convert the Jew and the Jew does not convert the Samaritan. Both remain very different in their religious beliefs.
The Samaritan does not hate, but rather loves and shows practical mercy on, someone with whom he had an irreconcilable religious difference.
The Application

Jesus/Isa told that story to answer the lawyers implied question "Who do I have to love in order to inherit eternal life?" .

Do I have to love sinners?
Do I have to love people who believe wrongly?
Do I have to love people of other races and cultures?
Do I have to love those who despise and oppress me as the Jews despised and oppressed the Samaritans?
If you are to have the sort of love that God/Allah will take note of on the Day of Judgment ; the sort of love that will cause Him to grant you eternal life, then the answer to all these questions is Yes. Yes, you must love sinners. Yes you must love those who believe wrongly. Yes you must love people of other races and cultures. Yes you must love those who despise and oppress you. According to Jesus only this sort of love will be great enough to make you fit for Paradise. In another place Jesus teaches about what our attitude to our enemies should be:

(Luke 6:27-38 NKJV) "But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, {28} "bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. {29} "To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either. {30} "Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. {31} "And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise. {32} "But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. {33} "And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. {34} "And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. {35} "But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. {36} "Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. {37} "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. {38} "Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you."

Here Jesus is quite specific. There is no reward from God for behaving just like ordinary sinners. The righteous must live by a higher and holier standard and have a deeper and greater love. If sinners can show a little mercy then the righteous should show much mercy, if the sinners can lend, then the righteous can give, if the sinners can love their friends, the righteous can love their enemies.

If we are to demonstrate a greater love than that of the sinners, and bring ourselves eternal life on the Day of Judgment, then we must love our enemies. So Christians and Muslims must love each other, if they are to listen to the teaching of Jesus and inherit eternal life. Like the Good Samaritan we must show practical love, care, mercy and hospitality to people with whom we have an irreconcilable religious difference.

You do not have to convert to their beliefs in order to love them and help them. You can bandage their wounds without having to believe their religion. You need not follow their behavior or their lifestyle. You can still disapprove of their sins while you take them to hospital. You do not have to agree with their actions or whitewash their past atrocities. But you must not kill them for it either.

Muslims and Christians must not kill each other because of their religious differences. Murderers do not inherit eternal life. Only people who love their enemies can inherit eternal life. If your heart is cold, if you are filed with rage and anger, then you are filled with darkness and you will stumble and fall. John, one of the disciples of Jesus, wrote these wise words:

(1 John 2:9-11 NKJV) He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. {10} He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. {11} But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

There are some religious people, both Christians and Muslim, who go around saying "I have the light, follow me" and a few of them are full of hate and anger. Of these John says they are "still in darkness until now". People of great light are people of great love, they are not people of hatred and anger. Anger and hatred is darkness and blinds us. Our anger keeps us from seeing what is good in other people and so we do not see life correctly. Soon we add to our list of people to hate. Eventually we hate many people and love only a few and our soul is in deep darkness.

To sum up God is love and love leads to eternal life. God is merciful and we should also be merciful. Our righteousness should surpass that of the sinners and our love should be much greater than theirs. If sinners can love those who love them, then the righteous must be able to love those who do not love them. The righteous must love their enemies and pray for those who persecute them. The realm of those we are to love includes those we disagree with, and sinners, and those of other cultures and faiths; in fact it includes the whole world. The realm of those we must hate in order to be considered righteous is nobody, it is empty.

In the modern city Muslims and Christians live side by side, travel on the same roads. go to the same schools, work in the same offices. If a Muslim is injured by the side of the road I as a Christian will stop and help. If I am in a rush at work I would hope a Muslim colleague would show compassion. This world is to small a place and the modern city too close and complex for us to fight and hate and kill over religious differences. We may not agree with one another, but we can and must love one another.

by John Edmiston

[expat_panama]

How dare you insinuate or even compare what we are saying to Nazism...

I started to compare you to the Nazis but then I took that back in my post 112,  "I thought you wanted to kill 1.3 billion people.   I was wrong." [I hope]   IOW, was comparing Islamofascists (the ones with the moons and stars) with the original fascists (the ones with the crosses).

There's lots of good reasons to not become a Moslem, but if you use the "some of them are evil" line in front of a Jew or Buddhist, it won't wash.

[expat_panama]

This world is to small a place and the modern city too close and complex for us to fight and hate and kill over religious differences. We may not agree with one another, but we can and must love one another.

Nice quote-- we need more of that kind of attitude around here.   And not just because it says so in the Bible (something wrong with that?), but it's also a hell of a lot easier on the gastro-intestinal tract (prune juice time again).

[Politicalmom]

How about you go and read this garbage to one of the girls who is about to be stoned for being RAPED?

Or go read it to a class full of the girls who the "good Muslims" were trying to force back INTO A BURNING BUILDING, solely because they weren't "covered enough".

[Chena]

"Nice quote-- we need more of that kind of attitude around here. And not just because it says so in the Bible (something wrong with that?), but it's also a hell of a lot easier on the gastro-intestinal tract (prune juice time again)."

Pour me a glass, please. lol Yes, I've come to the sad realization that there are some who are so filled with hate, fear and loathing that they surely must be legally blind now. I'm not quite sure how a Christian (and I'm assuming that at least some, if not many here are Christians) can have extremely deep-seated hatred for all Muslims, and still believe they are walking with Christ.

Also, Bible or no Bible, to hate an entire group of people, and paint them all with the same brush, is not only wrong, it's also extremely arrogant and ignorant. People like this will not bring peace to the world.

[expat_panama]

you go and read this garbage to one of the girls who is about to be stoned....

Ah, er, help me out here: is it that you're trying to win me over to your point of view?   Maybe Chena has a better way with words-- check out post #127

[Chena]

A brave, heroic, U. S. soldier was killed in Iraq last June. Did anyone here notice? Would you have prayed for him and his grieving family? Would you pray for his fellow soldiers who were praying for their Captain? Last week I told someone on FR that our son fought alongside dedicated and honorable U. S. Army soldiers, who happen to be Muslims. The response I got was that it was unimportant and irrelevant. Disgusting frame of mind.

US Muslim Soldiers Put Their Lives On The Line - But For What?


Few people noticed the military funeral at Arlington National Cemetary outside Washington, DC on June 15th. Perhaps it is because there have been so many of them, but this one was different that the rest. A Muslim Army chaplain led several of the mourners in the janazah (funeral) prayers for Captain Humayun Khan, who lured a suicide car bomb away from the men in his charge, joining other Muslim soldiers in giving their life for a country that increasingly bases its opinion of Islam on the sensational and horrific beheading videos that have clogged the Net recently. Dozens of condemnations or terror from Muslim groups across America and support for their fellow Muslims in the service seem to have made no difference. "I do often feel like I am viewed with suspicion, but that is always from soldiers who don't know me," said PFC Mirza Bashir Ahmed, a medic currently serving in Iraq. "There are always jokes about me helping the terrorists and being a spy, but I shrug it off as humor in bad taste." While there have undoubtedly been Muslims who disgraced their oath of service, the vast majority of Muslims in the armed forces serve with honor, even after enduring indignities such as those faced by Chaplain James Yee. Now Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun, a US Marine from Utah captured over the weekend, faces a possible beheading similar to the murders of Kim Sun-il and Nicholas Berg as his hometown mosque prays for his safety. Will the same people who raged on the talk shows show the same outrage if a Muslim soldier is killed? Will they still take the actions of these thugs as representative of Islam, even if they kill other Muslims? The answer will reveal what hope American Muslims have left to defining themselves on their own terms.

[miltonim]

Efharisto poli! Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

[Kolokotronis]

"Efharisto poli!"

Parakalo.

[Siamese Princess]

Now Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun, a US Marine from Utah captured over the weekend, faces a possible beheading similar to the murders of Kim Sun-il and Nicholas Berg as his hometown mosque prays for his safety. Will the same people who raged on the talk shows show the same outrage if a Muslim soldier is killed? Will they still take the actions of these thugs as representative of Islam, even if they kill other Muslims? The answer will reveal what hope American Muslims have left to defining themselves on their own terms.

Hassoun turned up -- he probably was a deserter (at least).

I don't trust Muslims in the US military.

[expat_panama]

Thanks for the heads up on Captain Humayun Khan. 

I only wish the Freeper Admin people would take the time to view a web site like this before allowing so many calls for even more killing.

[Chena]

Siamese Princess wrote: "I don't trust Muslims in the US military."


Part of what Chena posted: "A Muslim Army chaplain led several of the mourners in the janazah (funeral) prayers for Captain Humayun Khan, who lured a suicide car bomb away from the men in his charge, joining other Muslim soldiers in giving their life for a country that increasingly bases its opinion of Islam on the sensational and horrific beheading videos that have clogged the Net recently."

I hope and pray that Captain Khan's family never has to read words such as yours. This brave man died fighting for our country, and thru his bravery saved his fellow soldiers. Your selfish and cruel opinion saddens me beyond words.

[Woodworker]

Muslims in the US military have a tough row to hoe, akin to the problems those of Japanese, German, or Italian descent had in World War II. The actions of a few extremists, such as the solider who threw a grenade into a tent in Kuwait, will always outweigh the brave actions of the many.

One of the marks of an American has always been willingness to accommodate to the American culture. Given the current state of the American culture wars, that is a difficult pill for Muslims to swallow. Likewise, the many strictures of Islam, i.e., the Shari Law, are a difficult pill for most Americans to swallow.

This article is a good beginning for the totally uninformed. There is ample information on Islam on the web, from Muslims. Americans can look and make up there own minds. So what's the path for an American Muslim? Perhaps emulation of the path followed by other religious groups out of the American mainstream, such as the Mormons.

[Chena]

My goodness, this must be my lucky day. Or perhaps my prayers are being answered. I've been praying for Muslims and for divine intervention for those who hate, or have a deep prejudice towards Muslims. I was just saying on another thread related to this subject, that today I had decided that it was time I quit reading FR. I found so many hateful people when it came to this issue, that I no longer considered it a wise choice to be involved with this website.

And then, lo and behold, I found that there are a few others on FR who also disagree with the Muslim bashing going on here on FR. Thank you so much for your post. Our son was in Iraq, and he would love to have a nice, little chat (har har) with alot of the Freepers who insult the honor of soldiers just because they happen to be of the Muslim faith.

[JesseHousman]

Just what we needed. A moderate's view on Islamic murdering beasts!

[Awgie]

Could someone please enlighten me...what is the correct way to use the terms "Muslim" and "Islamic."

[Woodworker]

"Muslim" is one who has submitted to Allah, i.e., a follower of Islam. For example, "The Koran teaches that Moses was a Muslim." Islamic means of, or from, Islam. For example, "Saudi Arabia is an Islamic country."