Vatican praises Arafat for Palestinian vision

ABC News ^ | 11-11-04

[SJackson]

The Vatican has praised Yasser Arafat as a charismatic leader who struggled to win independence for his people, and repeated its support of a sovereign Palestinian state alongside Israel.

Pope John Paul, who last met Arafat in 2001, retreated into private prayer when he was told of the death of the Palestinian leader earlier on Thursday in Paris, a Vatican source said.

The Pope, who made a historic trip to Israel and the Palestinian territories in 2000, sent a message saying he was particularly close to the Palestinian people "in this hour of sadness".

The 84-year-old Pope's message said he prayed that the "star of harmony" would soon bring peace to the Holy Land and that both Israelis and Palestinians could live "reconciled among themselves as two independent and sovereign states".

Earlier, a statement by the Vatican's chief spokesman called Mr Arafat the "illustrious deceased" and asked God to grant eternal rest to his soul.

"The Holy See joins the pain of the Palestinian people for the passing of President Yasser Arafat. He was a leader of great charisma who loved his people and tried to guide them towards national independence," said the statement by chief spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls.

The official statement was bound to displease Israel because it made no mention of militant attacks, which the Jewish state blamed on Mr Arafat and insists must stop before the stalled peace process can get back on track.

In recent years the Vatican continued to recognise Mr Arafat as the legitimate leader of the Palestinians after Washington and Israel had written him off.

But Vatican officials privately criticised him for what one called "jumping off the peace train".

"There is no doubt that he was a towering figure for his people but his great mistake was not to sign on at Camp David," a senior Vatican prelate told Reuters.

"That was a great failure and a lot of problems stemmed from that," he said. "He missed his date with history."

At a US-brokered a peace summit in 2000 both sides came close to a final accord that would have established an independent Palestinian state, but the talks broke down over the status of Jerusalem and Palestinian refugees.

Washington and Israel blamed Mr Arafat for the failure.

Over the past four years, the Vatican's improvement in relations with the Palestinian Authority coincided with a deterioration of relations with Israel.

The Pope repeatedly criticised Israeli incursions into Palestinian territories and last November, the Vatican was shocked when Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon came to Rome for several days but did not ask to see the Pope.

[SoothingDave]

But I am not sure how the Pope's comments praising Arafat further that objective. His comments only alienate many Jews, as well as many fundamentalists Christians who believe the rightful owners of the Holy Land are the jews and not Muslim terrorists.

Well whether or not the "rightful owners" of the Holy Land are in possession of it, that doesn't change the reality of the world. There is conflict. The Pope would rather see nations and men settle their differences without violence.

The Pope did not praise Arafat. That's what ABC said, and they are wrong. Read the Pope's words.

SD

[NeoCaveman]

It's always amusing to see the same FReepers who know the media is often biased and inaccurate take every anti-Vatican piece as gospel.

Seems they like the LameStream Media when it affirms their age old prejudices.

[TapTheSource]

Ok, how about just the Vicar of Christ.

[Max7]

"Oh, puleeeeeeeze! A murder and terrorist was "a charismatic leader?!" (Hitler and Stalin were "charismatic", too!)

That's how I see it, but Soothing Dove responded to my post (see post 87). Not to belabor the point, but I don't see any evidence from the Pope that he thought Arafat was a bad guy, a REALLY bad guy. Just somebody who loved his people and kissed the Pope's ring when he met with him.

[Bella_Bru]

I liked jwalsh's suggested on what they could have said. Did they have to say anything nice at all? Was Hitler or Stalin eulogized in such a way? Will Hussein or Bin Laden be eulogized? Can't they just leave it?

[SoothingDave]

A murder and terrorist was "a charismatic leader?!" (Hitler and Stalin were "charismatic", too!) "

So, you recognize that the phrase "charismatic leader" need not be praise, and yet you are still angry about its use? Why is that? It's like going to someone's funeral and saying he was nice to his mother. That's caled "damning with faint praise."

Rest for his "eternal soul?!?!" I don't think that Hell is a place of eternal rest. Maybe we can't know for sure who will finally end up in Heaven or Hell, that is God's ultimate judgement. But by the fruits of Arafat....I doubt that he is now, or ever will, enjoy the bliss of Heaven.

Don't let vengeance cloud your heart. We may think it highly unlikely that such a man be saved from damnation, but it is entirely Christian to pray for such a thing.

Are you without sin?

SD

[SoothingDave]

I liked jwalsh's suggested on what they could have said. Did they have to say anything nice at all? Was Hitler or Stalin eulogized in such a way? Will Hussein or Bin Laden be eulogized? Can't they just leave it?

Like it or not, Arafat was a partner in attempting to bring peace to the area. One doesn't remain silent when a partner dies. Especially when one wants to encourage a new partner to emerge and not just piss off an entire population.

SD

[Capt. Tom]

Knowing lots of Catholics here at FR, I will refrain from the howl of protest that wants to come from my keyboard. I will only point out that this is a perfect illustration of the gulf that still exists between Caltholics and Jews.

It is also an example of the gulf that exists between the Popes personal opinions and the opinions of many Catholics. (the Pope is personaly against the death penalty but there is no church dogma against the death penalty.)

This is the Popes personal opinion and not the moral teaching of the Church. Catholics are free to tell the Pope you are wrong in this matter and yo ought to shut up, and not embarrass us. - tom

[Bella_Bru]

He attempted to bring peace by killing off Jews.

[paladinan]

[bigeasy_70118]
> While I agree with you the brevity of the Pope's comments is
> telling, I would rather not have to use term brevity to
> describe the Pope's comments. Non-existent would have been
> just fine.

That's not what I meant by the reference to "brevity" (though that's a very good point); I meant that Catholicism is not a "sound byte" religion, and its context is vast. Any given "sound byte" from the Vatican (or any other source claiming to represent Catholicism) will be positively anemic, for want of the immense body of Catholic teaching which explains it.

Think of it this way: for the Church, the definition of "love" is "choosing the best good for someone else." It has nothing, whatever, to do with feelings. It's possible to love someone who repulses you (such as Arafat); loving doesn't mean affectionate, pleasant feelings... nor does it even require that you have anything to do with that person at all (except pray for their conversion and salvation). It's possible even to kill someone, and not surrender love of them... if lethal force is necessary to stop that person from committing a proportionately serious crime.

Hollywood has done a rather thorough job of indoctrinating the US into thinking "love is a mixture of good feelings, desire, hormones, etc." What a shame.

The Pope loves Arafat (in the true sense, not in the hollywood "sentimental" sense), though he certainly hates the evil Arafat has done; and the Pope will certainly be the first person to pray for Arafat's wretched soul. I *do* think that the "gushing" about Arafat's charisma (which is technically true... Hitler had charisma, too), etc., was uncalled for... but nobody ever claimed that the Holy Father had to be perfect. He makes mistakes, too... though usually on the side of generosity.

[bigeasy_70118]

The Pope would rather see nations and men settle their differences without violence.

I ask you who is responsible for that violence?

The Pope did not praise Arafat. That's what ABC said, and they are wrong. Read the Pope's words.

I have re-read them. I think you are being overly generous in your interpretation. However, even if I am inclined to give the ailing Pontiff the benefit of the doubt, the comments by his surrogates are unacceptable.

[jwalsh07]

Seems they like the LameStream Media when it affirms their age old prejudices.

I am a practicing Catholic. Where do my age old prejudices lie?

The Vatican should be a moral exemplar, not a politico. Murdering women and children is wrong. Men who do that don't deserve slight praise or any praise. They don't deserve approbation, they deserve condemnation.

Sometimes the Vatican is simply lost.

[Faraday]

Suppose we should expect a statement from the Vatican about how the "illustrious" Osama bin Laden, "a leader of great charisma," is loved by many people. This nonsense of not calling evil evil is a peculiar way of exercizing moral suasion. Are the Palestinians moral lives better served by having the evil done in their name papered over? Whitened seplechers...

[paladinan]

One point, which I should have made:

I'm still not wholly convinced that the "gushing" comments came from the Pope himself; they may have come from some more "anonymous" Vatican official who has more sentimetality toward the Palestinians. (I'm thinking of the cardinal who "pitied" Saddam for his tooth exam on video. *sigh*)

[AFPhys]

See this story and articles posted within the thread for more info. The Old Media won't let us know, but the New Media have it well documented. "Rare, unknown blood disorder" my foot. He died of AIDS ...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1272876/posts
Suspicions grow that Arafat is dying of AIDS

[Qwinn]

"Well, the Pope then, Pius XII had a lot of nice things to say about Hitler!"

Uh huh. Right. That's why Time Magazine quoted Albert Einstein as saying the following in 1940, while Pius XII was Pope: "Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing the truth." And that's why multiple New York Times editorials of the time called the Vatican a "lone voice in the wilderness", and the Pope the only European leader to speak out against Hitler.

I also noted several attempts on this thread to connect the Spanish inquisition directly to Rome, even though there is no evidence of that ever being established, and in fact Rome condemned many of the practices during the Spanish Inquisition.

And it would also be nice to hear just one person put the horrible boogeyman "Inquisition" into perspective, given that more people were killed in one average -week- under Communism in the 20th century were killed in all the centuries of all the various Inquisitions put together.

I'm agnostic, personally, but some people's anti-Catholic bigotry is so extreme and so blatant in it's lies and propagandizing that I consider it a moral imperative to expose it for what it is.

Qwinn

[Askel5]

==== Well, seeing how the Pope is the "Vicar of Christ," not to mention "infallible," what he says about Yasser Arafat must be true, right?


You, like so many of the rabid anti-Catholic bigots on the forum, are somehow under the mistaken impression that every word the Bishop of Rome utters is somehow "infallible."

That designation is reserved solely for "ex cathedra" pronouncements on matters of dogma and doctrine.

It's to the Church's credit (if not also that of the Christ who promised the gates of hell -- opened from within, even -- would not prevail against His Bride) that no Pope in our 2000-year history, however woefully corrupt, ill-informed or otherwise tainted, has managed to destroy or deform in the least those core tenets of the Faith.

Just another reason I'm a Hopeful and Joyous sort even amid the distressing and depressing sorts of news with which we -- particularly Christians -- are inundated these days.

[wreckedangle]

SD,
Kudos to your Franciscan educators. You've made them proud today.

[k2blader]

Like it or not, Arafat was a partner in attempting to bring peace to the area.

Do you honestly believe Arafat was ever interested in bringing peace to the area, without first murdering as many Jews as possible?

[sheik yerbouty]

Chag sameach!