Posted on 11/11/2004 7:16:53 AM PST by SJackson
Well whether or not the "rightful owners" of the Holy Land are in possession of it, that doesn't change the reality of the world. There is conflict. The Pope would rather see nations and men settle their differences without violence.
The Pope did not praise Arafat. That's what ABC said, and they are wrong. Read the Pope's words.
SD
Seems they like the LameStream Media when it affirms their age old prejudices.
Ok, how about just the Vicar of Christ.
That's how I see it, but Soothing Dove responded to my post (see post 87). Not to belabor the point, but I don't see any evidence from the Pope that he thought Arafat was a bad guy, a REALLY bad guy. Just somebody who loved his people and kissed the Pope's ring when he met with him.
I liked jwalsh's suggested on what they could have said. Did they have to say anything nice at all? Was Hitler or Stalin eulogized in such a way? Will Hussein or Bin Laden be eulogized? Can't they just leave it?
So, you recognize that the phrase "charismatic leader" need not be praise, and yet you are still angry about its use? Why is that? It's like going to someone's funeral and saying he was nice to his mother. That's caled "damning with faint praise."
Rest for his "eternal soul?!?!" I don't think that Hell is a place of eternal rest. Maybe we can't know for sure who will finally end up in Heaven or Hell, that is God's ultimate judgement. But by the fruits of Arafat....I doubt that he is now, or ever will, enjoy the bliss of Heaven.
Don't let vengeance cloud your heart. We may think it highly unlikely that such a man be saved from damnation, but it is entirely Christian to pray for such a thing.
Are you without sin?
SD
Like it or not, Arafat was a partner in attempting to bring peace to the area. One doesn't remain silent when a partner dies. Especially when one wants to encourage a new partner to emerge and not just piss off an entire population.
SD
It is also an example of the gulf that exists between the Popes personal opinions and the opinions of many Catholics. (the Pope is personaly against the death penalty but there is no church dogma against the death penalty.)
This is the Popes personal opinion and not the moral teaching of the Church. Catholics are free to tell the Pope you are wrong in this matter and yo ought to shut up, and not embarrass us. - tom
He attempted to bring peace by killing off Jews.
I ask you who is responsible for that violence?
The Pope did not praise Arafat. That's what ABC said, and they are wrong. Read the Pope's words.
I have re-read them. I think you are being overly generous in your interpretation. However, even if I am inclined to give the ailing Pontiff the benefit of the doubt, the comments by his surrogates are unacceptable.
I am a practicing Catholic. Where do my age old prejudices lie?
The Vatican should be a moral exemplar, not a politico. Murdering women and children is wrong. Men who do that don't deserve slight praise or any praise. They don't deserve approbation, they deserve condemnation.
Sometimes the Vatican is simply lost.
Suppose we should expect a statement from the Vatican about how the "illustrious" Osama bin Laden, "a leader of great charisma," is loved by many people. This nonsense of not calling evil evil is a peculiar way of exercizing moral suasion. Are the Palestinians moral lives better served by having the evil done in their name papered over? Whitened seplechers...
One point, which I should have made:
I'm still not wholly convinced that the "gushing" comments came from the Pope himself; they may have come from some more "anonymous" Vatican official who has more sentimetality toward the Palestinians. (I'm thinking of the cardinal who "pitied" Saddam for his tooth exam on video. *sigh*)
See this story and articles posted within the thread for more info. The Old Media won't let us know, but the New Media have it well documented. "Rare, unknown blood disorder" my foot. He died of AIDS ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1272876/posts
Suspicions grow that Arafat is dying of AIDS
"Well, the Pope then, Pius XII had a lot of nice things to say about Hitler!"
Uh huh. Right. That's why Time Magazine quoted Albert Einstein as saying the following in 1940, while Pius XII was Pope: "Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing the truth." And that's why multiple New York Times editorials of the time called the Vatican a "lone voice in the wilderness", and the Pope the only European leader to speak out against Hitler.
I also noted several attempts on this thread to connect the Spanish inquisition directly to Rome, even though there is no evidence of that ever being established, and in fact Rome condemned many of the practices during the Spanish Inquisition.
And it would also be nice to hear just one person put the horrible boogeyman "Inquisition" into perspective, given that more people were killed in one average -week- under Communism in the 20th century were killed in all the centuries of all the various Inquisitions put together.
I'm agnostic, personally, but some people's anti-Catholic bigotry is so extreme and so blatant in it's lies and propagandizing that I consider it a moral imperative to expose it for what it is.
Qwinn
==== Well, seeing how the Pope is the "Vicar of Christ," not to mention "infallible," what he says about Yasser Arafat must be true, right?
You, like so many of the rabid anti-Catholic bigots on the forum, are somehow under the mistaken impression that every word the Bishop of Rome utters is somehow "infallible."
That designation is reserved solely for "ex cathedra" pronouncements on matters of dogma and doctrine.
It's to the Church's credit (if not also that of the Christ who promised the gates of hell -- opened from within, even -- would not prevail against His Bride) that no Pope in our 2000-year history, however woefully corrupt, ill-informed or otherwise tainted, has managed to destroy or deform in the least those core tenets of the Faith.
Just another reason I'm a Hopeful and Joyous sort even amid the distressing and depressing sorts of news with which we -- particularly Christians -- are inundated these days.
SD,
Kudos to your Franciscan educators. You've made them proud today.
Do you honestly believe Arafat was ever interested in bringing peace to the area, without first murdering as many Jews as possible?
Chag sameach!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.