Bush Breaks First Campaign Pledge By Renewing Call For Illegal Alien Amnesty

FAIR ^ | November 10, 2004 | Dan Stein

[nopardons]

Nooooooooo...they all want him to pull ALL of our military out of Iraq and Afghanistan and place them on our Southern border and shoot to kill...they don't care,at all, about our border with Canada,nor the illegals who fly here.LOL

[Howlin]

One could almost think that they were just "waiting" for an issue, any issue, to come back out in force, wouldn't you?

[itsahoot]

Haven't they already been penalized by paying into Social Security, often under fake SSNs, with money that they will never be able to use?

And bank robbers have to give the money back too.......Oh the humanity........

[Dat Mon]

"Haven't they already been penalized by paying into Social Security, often under fake SSNs, with money that they will never be able to use?"

Some have paid in as you describe. I would not call that a penalty per se...by going around the system, they have lowered their benefits. The wages they acrue over the time that they are employed...as opposed to the time they would have to wait legally...may make up for it. Also consider the cost benefit associated with defacto free health care while they are here.

But I am convinced that most illegals, particularly those working for construction and other service jobs are paid in cash off the books.

If a company is going to evade the law by hiring illegals, they are NOT going to pay one half of the federally required payroll tax, if they can avoid it.

This is one of my main contentions with guest worker programs which dont address reality as seen by the EMPLOYER.

[RS]

"All over, education programs for top students are being cancelled so ESL students can be attended to. "

Did you vote for your school board to do this ?

"Every time I call a company or read directions, I have to ignore all of the Spanish gibberish."

Do you have a problem figuring out which one you can read or listen to ?

"Even cable TV wastes channels (which I have to pay for if I get cable) on Spanish stations."

Is suppose we should legislate what private companies sell now ?

"My taxes subsidize "low income housing" as much housing in down towns is filled with large numbers of foreigners per apartment."

So you want to toss out all foreigners ? or just all poor people ?

[Right Wing Professor]

Do they get citizenship status? Do they get the right to bring in their families? If not, then it's not an amnesty.

Amnesty: a general pardon for offenders by a government.

The Bush plan allows illegal aliens to pay a one-time fee and thence avoid the normal legal sanction - deportation. They will suffer no other legal disabilities connected with having broken US immigration law. They will be allowed to apply for green cards and eventually citizenship. You can argue all you want what the meaning of 'is' is; that's amnesty.

As someone who immigrated and became a citizen legally, I must say I resent that people who have deliberately broken the same laws I was careful to obey get the same result.

[sarcasm]

If Clinton had proposed this you would be having a coronary.

[Fatalis]

Do they get citizenship status? Do they get the right to bring in their families? If not, then it's not an amnesty.

LOL! Find an amnesty that ever met your definition.

[Spiff]

Maybe rather than trashing Bush, we should be contacting our respective representatives and asking them to START with enforcing the laws on the books.

Thank you! I'm not trying to "trash" Bush - I just feel angry and betrayed by this sudden return to his unpopular amnesty proposal. I'm thrilled that Kerry lost and I'm happy with most of Bush's positions - he's a great guy and a great President who restored dignity to the White House and the office of the President. He's doing a good job - overseas - with the War on Terror. He's (crossing my fingers) going to put pro-life, conservative justices on the Supreme Court and judges in federal judicial positions. He's for the constitutional amendment to protect traditional marriage. I know his strengths.

I also know what happens down here in Cochise County, AZ when he or his administration starts talking like this. I can see with my own eye the consequences of this kind of talk. The laws are not being enforced and talk like this gets them enforced even less.

I'm not against a guest worker plan either. It just has to be done in the right order and in the right way. And the first elements must be securing the border and providing for real interior enforcement.

[Iron Eagle]

Read these posts and see how this issue splits republicans. In fact, the tone and tenor here gives one an idea how sensitive this issue is.

Make no mistake -- the Bush plan is fraught with problems. In the end, a program that holds out an incentive to provide lawful immigration to those who have already broken the law is not good policy. Indeed, it will likely swell the ranks of illegals. (Evidence of this is already present since it was announced before).

Anyone who thinks this is a good plan should spend some time researching the devastating effect of illegal aliens on local and state economies. Contractors receive below market labor, which is not subject to taxation -- so we get screwed of revenue. Then, the costs of healthcare, education, car insurance, and crime are pushed-off on communities. The only winner is business interests -- to the extent they profit greater than the cost they must pay as individuals on the other end of the equation.

California used to provide free college to its residents in the early 70's, now it is 30 Billion dollars in debt. There is a direct correlation between the massive increase in social programs and state spending, and the influx of illegals.

For those of you interested in doing a real study of the impact -- look at a small town in New Jersey called Freehold. They have 4K illegals living in a town of 11K -- total off 15K. In ten years, they have changed the community, and have increased the school population so dramatically, that not only does the town need to absorb 400 students at 7,500 per year, they now need to build new schools. The kicker is, that town is 1.6 square miles, and has been fully developed for 50 years. The surge in population is due to overcrowding in houses and apartments. People living on other people's property as well. The situation is unreal. One town has become a work-camp for the affluent surrounding county.

This issue is very complex -- and one would be well advised to look at it from the many different sides before making a determination.

[Fatalis]

As someone who immigrated and became a citizen legally, I must say I resent that people who have deliberately broken the same laws I was careful to obey get the same result.

Shhh... you're supposed be quiet unless asked to celebrate diversity.

[Joe Hadenuf]

If Clinton had proposed this you would be having a coronary.

That is a fact. A brutally ugly fact.

[Columbine]

No, it's time to shoot down Bush's second trial baloon on this and work with Congress to ensure that NO amnesty plan - NONE - no form of amnesty passes Congress. And that our current laws get enforced.

Ok, state your plan to accomplish this.

[Iron Eagle]

of course the children of non-citizen residents here lawfully -- as guests, are permitted to go to school. They should be.

We are talking about people here illegally.

Now -- doesn't it seem strange that a school district can stop a child from another town from using that town's schools, but it is powerless to stop a person who is here unlawfuly from using its schools. That is the law under Plyler.

[Fatalis]

Thank you! I'm not trying to "trash" Bush - I just feel angry and betrayed by this sudden return to his unpopular amnesty proposal.

Why do you feel angry and betrayed? Presidnet Bush isn't returning to anything, his position is unchanged. He made speeches about it during the Summer and reaffirmed his position in the debate that Bob Schieffer moderated.

[FreedomCalls]

If a company is going to evade the law by hiring illegals, they are NOT going to pay one half of the federally required payroll tax, if they can avoid it.

But if there were no illegals available wouldn't such a company pay other workers off the books as well in order to reduce costs by not having to pay payroll taxes or benefits?

[sarcasm]

Why do you feel angry and betrayed? Presidnet Bush isn't returning to anything, his position is unchanged.

That's why I voted for Peroutka this time.

[FreedomCalls]

They will suffer no other legal disabilities connected with having broken US immigration law. They will be allowed to apply for green cards and eventually citizenship.

Where's this written down or been cited by someone in the admistration?

[HiJinx]

Are either of you aware of the fact that thousands of Mexican citizens cross the border to attend US schools daily?

Just curious.

[EagleMamaMT]

"No. I think we can maintain a good idea of what kinds of jobs Americans want to work and what we're unwilling to."

Go ahead: Name some of those jobs that Americans are unwilling to work.