Posted on 11/10/2004 2:52:53 AM PST by teezle
I have read several comments by FReepers about the slaugthering of Theo van Gogh and see a lot of half truths about it. Therefore I will write this short report from Utrecht (The Netherlands).
Theo van Gogh was a very famous film maker and columnist in The Netherlands. His movies were about several topics including a remake of Romeo and Julia with a Dutch girl and a Morrocan immigrant. He was a very generous guy as all his friends mentioned at the funeral and a good citizen (working for his son's sportclub). His other side was his fun in provoking people. He has provoked almost every well-known person in the Netherlands. For instance, there has been a lawsuit against him for commenting: "It smells like caramel, they must be burning the Jews with diabetes". He just loved to create conflicts.
He has been sacked as a columnist numerous times and the last few years he used the free newspaper in public traffic and his website www.degezonderoker.nl (thehealthysmoker) for his insults. Last years a lot of his insults were pointed against Muslims which he always mentioned as goatf*uckers. And yes, that is possible in the NL. I read an article about a NYT reporter who was thinking how he was going to translate that. I read in the NYT that he finally used "bestiality with a goat". :-)
Another person in the NL who is trying to start a discussion about Muslims and the Koran is Ayaan Hirsi Ali (House of Representatives for the liberal party). She is originally from Somalia and when she was told to marry a guy she fled to the NL. She asked Theo van Gogh to do a short film about Mulims women surpression and he did. Ayaan has been threatened so many times (she is someone who is not Muslim anymore, don't know the word for that) that she got police protection 24/7. Theo did not want protection.
Last week Theo van Gogh was cycling through Amsterdam and Mohammed B. shot him several times, slit his throat and than stabbed two knifes in him. One was sticking a letter to Ayaan Hirsi Ali to his body.
That night 20.000 people were making a lot of noise on the Dam (square) in Amsterdam to make a statement that this will not be tolerated. Also several Muslim demonstrations have been held after Tuesday. And a few rightwing extremist (neo nazis) were having demonstrations but these were aborted by the police.
A few more people were arrested in the aftermath and police are searching Mohammed B.'s religious teacher. They both had contact with Samir A., the guy who was arrested for planning attacks against the House of Rep.
Mohammed B. was raised in the NL and was a normal (read: moderate Muslim) until two years ago. He started visiting more radical mosques, got a beard and started wearing djelaba's. People around him say that he started becoming radical after his mother died of cancer. But when he got radical they lost contact.
Since Theo van Gogh was not a normal guy his friends organised a party the day before his funeral. They even had a corner with goats behind a fence with a sign above it: "For people that have the urge". :-)
Since last Tuesday a few attacks have been commited against Islamic schools and mosques. This ranged from small fires to thrown-in windows. Apart from two other attacks: A bomb attack at a Islamic school in Eindhoven and yesterday a fire that burned down a Islamic school in Uden. Also several churces have been under attack in recent days and yesterday night (I cannot believe it) the church in the village I grew up at (Boxmeer) was set on fire (small one though).
This morning I woke up and learned that the terrorism police squad tried to enter a house in The Hague and got a grenade thrown at them. Three police men were hurt. The police is trying to prevent the thing that happened in Madrid (exploding house when they entered) and are still waiting to enter the house. It is now even prohibited to fly over The Hague.
I can tell you guys this. Living in the Netherlands at this moment in time is very unreal. The song I keep having in my head this morning is "We gotta get out of this place.." I am starting to think more and more that we are on the edge of a major conflict within the NL (as some of you guys have been telling al along), but I am not ready to give up on the Muslim community in the Netherlands.
If it happens I probably have move to another country (perhaps to America like Theo van Gogh was going to do when his son finally got 18, is now 12 I believe). We'll see...
Btw. People were questioning my Dutch decent because of my English but I lived in England for half a year so that's why.
If anyone has any questions about the Netherlands or the situation as of now, please feel free to ask.
Best, Teezle
If people keep running and not standing and fighting, the US might be the last s-house by the Islamics but mark my words it will be a s-house eventually. People must stand and fight, running is just another form of appeasement and appeasement never works.
It's difficult to be nuanced when your head is off your shoulders. Get a grip and fight for your country. The "moderate" muslims are lying to you. Look up "al taqiyah".
I believe teezle said he refused it, which would seemingly be in character. Where did you learn otherwise?
We know they will be silent in their condemnation of the criminals. They may also be silent in support of these criminals out of a well justified fear.
Fabulous post, thanks for coming here.
Ping for knighthawk, who is one of your countrymen, and is a regular here at FreeRepublic.
True, that last. But they are fast getting to the point, where they need to face up to that fear, and deal with the extremists in their midst, or fear everyone else.
You are absolutely right about the soft handling of radical organisations!
I think you should see that in the light of the "Schoolstrijd". A hundred years ago government created laws that made schools from every religion (than of course Catholics and Protestants) should get money from the gov.
So when the Islam came, they also got money from the gov. Now the problem is the fact that the gov doesn't want to discriminate. There are radical Christian schools but they don't cause much trouble and now there are Islamic schools that do.
The Dutch people are reluctant to act against religion... Live and let live is the motto.
That will change now I believe. Politicians from Christian parties are urging for though action against mosques.
To late, the war has been raging on in Bosnia, Yugoslav Kosova, Russian Chechnya, western Makedonia for 10 years, guess who's side we've been on in each of those. Guess who's side we were on in the 1973 Turkish invasion of Cyprus or the 1920s when Turky was busy exterminating Orthoodox Armenians, Assyrians and Iotolan Greeks (about 4 million total).
Please stay safe, teezle.
Ping; knighthawk was pinged above...
I didn't express myself very well. The only reason they do not support terror publicly is a well justified fear of the American population.
I noticed this as well. It basically amounts to "the underlying reason for Islamist terrorism is the U.S."
We could go round-and-round about this, arguing about Dutch/French/Brit colonialism (Indonesia?); or the repressive governments of the M-E; or the Wahabbis and their efforts to radicalize all of Islam; or whatever. There are a zillion arguable "reasons" for Islamist terrorism.
But over the 1600-year history of Islam and the West, there is only one common denominator in the conflict, and that is the Koran. Period.
There was no America when the Moors took Andulusia; or when the Muslims owned Sicily; or when they sacked Rome. And America's first declared war (in 1786?) was against the Barbary nations, e.g. Muslims, long before we had any involvement whatsoever in the M-E.
Sorry, it is the Koran and only the Koran that is the root cause of Islamist terrorism.
Thank you so much, teezle, for your insightful post. I'm glad you didn't give up on us! Some of our Freepers were quite rude to you when you first stopped by. I've witnessed this before and hell, it ain't very open-minded, but it happens. It's just the way things go sometimes on FR. If someone joins a thread and doesn't join in on the all-too-often, one-sided rampage, they are attacked swiftly. Maybe those folks will eventually learn that their arrogance towards others doesn't make for an intellectual discussion. My dad would call them "know-all-ogists". LOL
Read this last night on FR:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1275113/posts
'Thou shall not kill' message censored: removal of artwork meant to honor slain filmmaker
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Tuesday, November 9, 2004
Posted on 11/09/2004 1:53:56 AM MST by JohnHuang2
Dutch authorities have destroyed a piece of public art meant to memorialize slain filmmaker Theo van Gogh because it included the phrase "Thou shalt not kill."
According to Radio Netherlands, the Volkskrant newspaper reported a Dutch artist in Rotterdam wanted to express his emotions over the murder of van Gogh, who was allegedly killed by a Muslim extremist last week due to his criticism of Islam.
The artist's painting on a wall in his neighborhood included an ascending angel with the date and the familiar commandment from the Old Testament inscribed. Authorities were not impressed.
"In the year 2004, this commandment is considered too sensitive in our multicultural society," wrote the Volkskrant.
Officials ordered the immediate removal of the artwork from the public space, Radio Netherlands reported.
According to the newspaper, when a local television team showed up, the police ordered the crew to stop filming the painting and hand over the film. A reporter who tried to stop the destruction of the painting was jailed for three hours.
bttt
Ah, gotcha, I did misunderstand. Thought you meant the moderates were not speaking out against the radicals, due to fear of the radicals. It's probably some of both.
Unfortunately, we seem to need to make it such that they fear us, more.
Lets not forget the glorious 13 centuaries that the "moderates" brought us: war, war, war oh and did I mention pestilance? How else has Islam ever spread?
I'll second that. I was disappointed at the things being said to you yesterday teezle. Thanks for sticking around.
Excerpt From Why I Left Islam by Ali Sina:
My rejection of Islam is not based on the bad deeds of the Muslims but on the bad teachings of its holy book and on the bad deeds of its founder. Many cruelties and heinous acts of violence, perpetrated by Muslims throughout the centuries were inspired by the Quran and the Sunnah (the examples of the prophet). That is why I condemn ISLAM for the bad things that Muslims do. Any effort to humanize Islam is a waste of time. The obstacle to any reform is Quran. The enemy is Islam and that is the target of my attacks. I do that, despite knowing that I have become the magnet of the hatred of fanatical Muslims and my own life could be in danger. Yet I know that by eradicating Islam we can save the world from the dangers of a catastrophe that otherwise is looming over our heads and could cause more disaster than the 1st and 2nd World Wars combined. Eradication of Islam means restoring peace among humanity and civility, democracy and prosperity in the Muslim world.
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