Posted on 11/10/2004 2:52:53 AM PST by teezle
I have read several comments by FReepers about the slaugthering of Theo van Gogh and see a lot of half truths about it. Therefore I will write this short report from Utrecht (The Netherlands).
Theo van Gogh was a very famous film maker and columnist in The Netherlands. His movies were about several topics including a remake of Romeo and Julia with a Dutch girl and a Morrocan immigrant. He was a very generous guy as all his friends mentioned at the funeral and a good citizen (working for his son's sportclub). His other side was his fun in provoking people. He has provoked almost every well-known person in the Netherlands. For instance, there has been a lawsuit against him for commenting: "It smells like caramel, they must be burning the Jews with diabetes". He just loved to create conflicts.
He has been sacked as a columnist numerous times and the last few years he used the free newspaper in public traffic and his website www.degezonderoker.nl (thehealthysmoker) for his insults. Last years a lot of his insults were pointed against Muslims which he always mentioned as goatf*uckers. And yes, that is possible in the NL. I read an article about a NYT reporter who was thinking how he was going to translate that. I read in the NYT that he finally used "bestiality with a goat". :-)
Another person in the NL who is trying to start a discussion about Muslims and the Koran is Ayaan Hirsi Ali (House of Representatives for the liberal party). She is originally from Somalia and when she was told to marry a guy she fled to the NL. She asked Theo van Gogh to do a short film about Mulims women surpression and he did. Ayaan has been threatened so many times (she is someone who is not Muslim anymore, don't know the word for that) that she got police protection 24/7. Theo did not want protection.
Last week Theo van Gogh was cycling through Amsterdam and Mohammed B. shot him several times, slit his throat and than stabbed two knifes in him. One was sticking a letter to Ayaan Hirsi Ali to his body.
That night 20.000 people were making a lot of noise on the Dam (square) in Amsterdam to make a statement that this will not be tolerated. Also several Muslim demonstrations have been held after Tuesday. And a few rightwing extremist (neo nazis) were having demonstrations but these were aborted by the police.
A few more people were arrested in the aftermath and police are searching Mohammed B.'s religious teacher. They both had contact with Samir A., the guy who was arrested for planning attacks against the House of Rep.
Mohammed B. was raised in the NL and was a normal (read: moderate Muslim) until two years ago. He started visiting more radical mosques, got a beard and started wearing djelaba's. People around him say that he started becoming radical after his mother died of cancer. But when he got radical they lost contact.
Since Theo van Gogh was not a normal guy his friends organised a party the day before his funeral. They even had a corner with goats behind a fence with a sign above it: "For people that have the urge". :-)
Since last Tuesday a few attacks have been commited against Islamic schools and mosques. This ranged from small fires to thrown-in windows. Apart from two other attacks: A bomb attack at a Islamic school in Eindhoven and yesterday a fire that burned down a Islamic school in Uden. Also several churces have been under attack in recent days and yesterday night (I cannot believe it) the church in the village I grew up at (Boxmeer) was set on fire (small one though).
This morning I woke up and learned that the terrorism police squad tried to enter a house in The Hague and got a grenade thrown at them. Three police men were hurt. The police is trying to prevent the thing that happened in Madrid (exploding house when they entered) and are still waiting to enter the house. It is now even prohibited to fly over The Hague.
I can tell you guys this. Living in the Netherlands at this moment in time is very unreal. The song I keep having in my head this morning is "We gotta get out of this place.." I am starting to think more and more that we are on the edge of a major conflict within the NL (as some of you guys have been telling al along), but I am not ready to give up on the Muslim community in the Netherlands.
If it happens I probably have move to another country (perhaps to America like Theo van Gogh was going to do when his son finally got 18, is now 12 I believe). We'll see...
Btw. People were questioning my Dutch decent because of my English but I lived in England for half a year so that's why.
If anyone has any questions about the Netherlands or the situation as of now, please feel free to ask.
Best, Teezle
"First, the Germans never rose up in anything like even one million."
I believe your comment above is still factually incorrect. The article I've linked to below has some insight into that particular thought.
http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/facing.htm
This is what I find fascinating about folks who bring up Hitler's Germany in their attempt to find comparisons to the situation we face today. My sister, is a Liberal, and during our conversations about Bush vs Kerry, she was saying what so many Libs were saying....that Bush was just like Hitler. When asked why she believes that, she replied it because she felt Bush was going to treat Muslims the way Hitler treated the Jews. As you can imagine, I argued with her vehemently about that.
Now I find that many of you also use Hitler's Germany in arguments about the War on Terror. So, if we were to start at square one and try to find some correlation between the two, what would we find? Bush=Hitler, and Muslims=Jews? So then you say that German's didn't stand up against Hitler, or not in enough numbers or as forcefully as they should have. Again, I do say that they did try, and in greater numbers than you believe.
Back to my point.... If you wish to compare these two historical events, the argument would be that all Muslims (Jews/Germans) should stand up against Bush (Hitler) because it is wrong to exterminate, inter, hate, or wish death upon anyone because of their religion.
I believe that we must keep our eye on the ball here. The "ball" is radical, extremists, of Islam, who use terrorism as a weapon against everyone who does not follow their twisted logic.
You, as have others, believe that because you have read the Quran, or the parts of it that these extremists use to justify their jihad, you must know exactly how ALL Muslims interpret the Quran. That is wrong, and I think many of you know that. When people pick and choose passages in either the Quran or the Bible, they are playing what I heard once referred to as "Bible Bingo". There are passages in the Bible that we do not take literally, as we realize that this is a historical document that is not always in step with our society today. My point is that every religion has some extreme wording in their historical, religious books. We, as Christians, believe in the basic teachings and use those as words to live by. So do the Moderate Muslims.
Fact is simple: Islam is evil, with 13 centuaries of blood and murder. Every thing else is anacdotal.
You put the finger on the sore spot(Dutch phrase)...
One day before the end of closing of the transfer market they sold Ibrahimovic!!! Unbelievable!! They wanted to buy another striker but at the end of that day the medical tests failed. So now we have a big problem cause there is no proper striker. Sonck and Anastousiou are not good enough...
Oh and Trabelsi had a financial conflict so he didn't play until two weeks ago.
And besides that the young players at Ajax are thinking that they are better than they are... they are spoiled brags.. Someone even shouted "F*ck you" to the manager when he scored after being a substitute in the first half... (apparently he thought that he was to good to sit on the bench).
John O'Brien played last weekend for the first time (I believe) since ages and got injured again... so he is out of the picture again for four weeks...
Demarcus Beasley is an excellent buy from PSV! They always have better transfers than Ajax! I am amazed how it is possible that PSV knew that there was a good American soccer player out there. It is not the first competition scouts are going to look at I would think. No offence but that's like sending scouts from American football clubs to the Netherlands or not?
:-) Just kidding.
Like the liberals, a trojan horse indeed....
Zlatan Ibrahimovic was a great forward. I could not think of this name in the last post. Is he playing in Spain or Italy now? Wesley Sonck (are you not impressed that I, a measley MLS fan, even know their first names?) is a good player, but not the guy for scoring goals. As for buying in the MLS, the league is going to produce some good players and they are going to be good value compared to the outrageous prices of European leagues.
"Fact is simple: Islam is evil, with 13 centuaries of blood and murder. Every thing else is anacdotal."
Christians also have centuries of blood and murder on their hands. Some would believe that this makes us all evil as well. Perhaps then, they are right.
dutch bump
"Intern camps? They'll be begging for the camps to hide in as Joe America goes rampaging on the muslims in pay back. Mark my words, Cowboys and Muslims will be the game of the day should something like a small nuke or bio be released."
These are extremely disturbing words that I wasn't going to respond to, but after mulling it over I just can't in good conscience let that go by without comment.
I'm not saying you would condone what your words are implying, and I would hope and pray that you wouldn't condone that sort of evil, rascist, hateful behavior. To intentionally harm someone who is not responsible for an act of terror, is an act of terror in itself. You would be no better than radical Muslim extremists/terrorists, and you would not be acting in God's name. You'd be doing the work of the devil.
Thanks for the link jb6, didn't know it was available on the Net. The book I have is a reprint from the edition of 1898, found it in a secondhamd bookshop. Cost a hundred aussie dollars.
On the last page, Muir writes: 'The Caliphate ended with the fall of Bagdad.'
Interesting in the light of Saddam's ambitions.
I'm not doing any work of the devil, I'm stating reality as how it is or will be. If you do not believe that there will massacres in the streets should Islam be responsable for the death of tens or hundreds of thousands of Americans, then you are fooling yourself and have little knowledge of US history. This will boil over in an instant.
Outside of the Catholic Inquisition (something the other half of Christianity: the Orthodox never had) there is no major evil done and even the Inquisition is over blown. Yes there was the 30 years wars, but those were wars not massive prosecutions. Even those prosecutions that happened were usually short lived and sporadic at best. The Crusades and much else, that I'm sure you're biting at the bit to mention, as you should know were military responses to the evil that Jihad had unleashed on the Holy Lands, N.Africa, Spain and the Bzyntine Empire.
Impressed indeed! Had never heard of the MLS league. Is never broadcasted over here... Zlatan is playing for... indeed our enemy in the poule for the Champions League... Juventus! And he does some marvelous things for them... Unfortunately...
I don't believe this. The mosques are thriving in the USA as we speak (type).
They are directed to co-exist peacefully until a critical mass is achieved.
p.s. It has been posted in articles here on FR that the ROP is the fastest growing in America so stay tuned.
"I'm not doing any work of the devil, I'm stating reality as how it is or will be. If you do not believe that there will massacres in the streets should Islam be responsable for the death of tens or hundreds of thousands of Americans, then you are fooling yourself and have little knowledge of US history. This will boil over in an instant."
After having conversations with some on FR, I do believe that there will be massacres in the streets if terrorists strike us again. SOME will go on a murderous rampage and. The fact that this could happen does not make it RIGHT. Hate crimes against American Muslims increased after 9/11. Hate crimes against INNOCENT people who had nothing whatsoever to do with radical Islamic terrorists! Do you support those who did such things? I ask you....IF you knew a Muslim family personally, and knew them to be kind and good, what would YOU do to protect them? anything? Or would you be one of those to cast the first stone...fire the first bullet.....attack a fellow American because they happened to be Muslim?
I can't believe I'm even having to argue with someone that this form of vigilante justice would be unacceptable in the United States of America. On this Veterans Day, perhaps it would be wise to remember what our men and women of the U. S. Military have fought and died for, and continue to fight and die for today. Give it more thought...pray about it....do not let hatred blind you to what is right, and what is wrong.
By M. Zuhdi Jasser
American Islamic Forum for Democracy
Here is an article that you truly want to believe as do many others.
houeto<-----brewing the coffee black and strong
Teezle,
Good post. Please read Patrick J Buchanan's book "The Death of the West" You are now living what he wrote about just a few years ago. Wnat to see what will happen there next? Again please buy his book.
Nope, it means that due to the very nature of the religion we have to use a different standard.
How about an organization that promotes the sexual abuse of young boys by grown homosexual men? You gonna be their friend until they screw up? You gonna let your sons go over to their house to play? Nope.
Face it. Their 'holy' books command them to hate us. What say you of that?
You have a Muslim fifth column in your midst, no matter how moderate they seem. Their religion doesn't allow for coexistence with other societies and it dooms its practitioners to a life of ignorance and hatred. Not to mention how it treats half the human race. The Netherlands has no choice if it wants to survive as a decent country.
Evidently Malmo, Sweden, is overrun with violent Muslim gangs...to the point where police don't venture into most neighborhoods. And they're flooding into Ireland and Britain as well, making no secret of what they expect to accomplish. Nothing less than complete Islamofascism all over Europe.
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