Posted on 11/10/2004 2:52:53 AM PST by teezle
I have read several comments by FReepers about the slaugthering of Theo van Gogh and see a lot of half truths about it. Therefore I will write this short report from Utrecht (The Netherlands).
Theo van Gogh was a very famous film maker and columnist in The Netherlands. His movies were about several topics including a remake of Romeo and Julia with a Dutch girl and a Morrocan immigrant. He was a very generous guy as all his friends mentioned at the funeral and a good citizen (working for his son's sportclub). His other side was his fun in provoking people. He has provoked almost every well-known person in the Netherlands. For instance, there has been a lawsuit against him for commenting: "It smells like caramel, they must be burning the Jews with diabetes". He just loved to create conflicts.
He has been sacked as a columnist numerous times and the last few years he used the free newspaper in public traffic and his website www.degezonderoker.nl (thehealthysmoker) for his insults. Last years a lot of his insults were pointed against Muslims which he always mentioned as goatf*uckers. And yes, that is possible in the NL. I read an article about a NYT reporter who was thinking how he was going to translate that. I read in the NYT that he finally used "bestiality with a goat". :-)
Another person in the NL who is trying to start a discussion about Muslims and the Koran is Ayaan Hirsi Ali (House of Representatives for the liberal party). She is originally from Somalia and when she was told to marry a guy she fled to the NL. She asked Theo van Gogh to do a short film about Mulims women surpression and he did. Ayaan has been threatened so many times (she is someone who is not Muslim anymore, don't know the word for that) that she got police protection 24/7. Theo did not want protection.
Last week Theo van Gogh was cycling through Amsterdam and Mohammed B. shot him several times, slit his throat and than stabbed two knifes in him. One was sticking a letter to Ayaan Hirsi Ali to his body.
That night 20.000 people were making a lot of noise on the Dam (square) in Amsterdam to make a statement that this will not be tolerated. Also several Muslim demonstrations have been held after Tuesday. And a few rightwing extremist (neo nazis) were having demonstrations but these were aborted by the police.
A few more people were arrested in the aftermath and police are searching Mohammed B.'s religious teacher. They both had contact with Samir A., the guy who was arrested for planning attacks against the House of Rep.
Mohammed B. was raised in the NL and was a normal (read: moderate Muslim) until two years ago. He started visiting more radical mosques, got a beard and started wearing djelaba's. People around him say that he started becoming radical after his mother died of cancer. But when he got radical they lost contact.
Since Theo van Gogh was not a normal guy his friends organised a party the day before his funeral. They even had a corner with goats behind a fence with a sign above it: "For people that have the urge". :-)
Since last Tuesday a few attacks have been commited against Islamic schools and mosques. This ranged from small fires to thrown-in windows. Apart from two other attacks: A bomb attack at a Islamic school in Eindhoven and yesterday a fire that burned down a Islamic school in Uden. Also several churces have been under attack in recent days and yesterday night (I cannot believe it) the church in the village I grew up at (Boxmeer) was set on fire (small one though).
This morning I woke up and learned that the terrorism police squad tried to enter a house in The Hague and got a grenade thrown at them. Three police men were hurt. The police is trying to prevent the thing that happened in Madrid (exploding house when they entered) and are still waiting to enter the house. It is now even prohibited to fly over The Hague.
I can tell you guys this. Living in the Netherlands at this moment in time is very unreal. The song I keep having in my head this morning is "We gotta get out of this place.." I am starting to think more and more that we are on the edge of a major conflict within the NL (as some of you guys have been telling al along), but I am not ready to give up on the Muslim community in the Netherlands.
If it happens I probably have move to another country (perhaps to America like Theo van Gogh was going to do when his son finally got 18, is now 12 I believe). We'll see...
Btw. People were questioning my Dutch decent because of my English but I lived in England for half a year so that's why.
If anyone has any questions about the Netherlands or the situation as of now, please feel free to ask.
Best, Teezle
Then hang onto your head.
There was an FR post just a few days ago about the harrassment of the Republican Club at San Francisco State University.
Dozens (hundreds?) of middle Eastern type "students" wearing the Pali kalifah and hurling invective at the Republican kids who had police protection. Photos were included in the post so it was clear that the story was true.
The SF State administration did nothing, said nothing.
to become part of society and stand against the terrorists and radicals who they say have stolen their peaceful religion.
Never going to happen.
Smoke him/her out!
I suggest you read Samuel Huntington's The Clash of Civilizations (don't know if it has been translated into Dutch or Arabic). But in it, he says, "All Islam's borders are bloody."
Unfortunately for the Netherlands, Islam's borders are in your own cities and towns.
To blame the violence in the Netherlands on US involvement in the Middle East is to miss the point entirely. You might recall US involvement in the ME escalated dramatically after the first Gulf War where we liberated Muslim Kuwaitis from Muslim Saddam. Or Muslim Bosnia from Orthodox Serbs in Europe. The Islamo-fascists need very little excuse to resort to violence over some imagined slight or grief as Mr. Van Gogh discovered too late.
More:
-Fortuyn questioned NATO role of supporting radical islamism
-was critical of legal travesty on Dutch soil (ICTY kangaroo court)
I guess that's why we have been to the moon and the farthest reaches of the universe. I guess that's why we've lead the world in science and technology for a century. I guess that is why we have the largest and most successful multi-racial, multi-cultural, multi-religion society in the history of mankind.
Let me refer you to Thomas Friedman who points out that the inhospitable environment in Europe for immigrants lead to the radicalization of people like Mohammad Atta - the master-mind of 911. Yes my friend, the most fervent Islamic radicals are bred in Europe not America and not the Mideast. So much for an enlightened, tolerant people.
I've spent a great deal of time throughout Europe and the thing that struck me most was how homogeneous you still are. You know nothing about tolerance. Come to America and you will see what tolerance is all about. We are made up of people from all over this planet. We are bound together by our love of freedom and tolerance for each others differences. We respect all people and cultures, if we didn't we wouldn't have survived. If we didn't, we would have run out and burned down Mosques and Islamic Schools in response to 911.
We are just a bunch of simple people over here? What you know about us and our President sounds like it could fit on the head of a pin.
I don't blame you per se. You have been willing to allow your press to fill you with propaganda. Europeans have a long history of falling for the big lies. As outcasts from your continent, we are far more skeptical by nature.
Your time of trial is coming. I don't think we'll be so quick to lend a hand this time.
After eating dinner at Montmarte, myself and maybe 7 or 8 biz colleagues (Americans + Parisians) walked over to Sacre-Coeur to take in the nighttime view. Maybe 12:30 or later.
The parking lot was full of middle-Eastern looking kids, some smoking dope and drinking wine.
We didn't feel threatened, but we didn't stick around too long either.
Actually he said "You are either with us, or with the terrorists".
It should be a really easy choice, for anyone who is not secretly for the terrorists.
And I have learned, in the last three years, that there are far too many countries and people who are "with the terrorists".
The reason why Dutch muslims are now speaking out is their mosques are burning. Im sure muzzies here in US will also speak out when mosques are burning.
Said in the context of the fight against terrorists. Please do not extend it further than that.
So you agree with moral relativism.
And as a moral relativist, you must then agree that it was 'right' for an Islamic fundamentalist to murder Theo Van Gogh, because it was 'right for him'?
ping
I think this thread is calling your name
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1276229/posts
I think we will see similar acts of violence coming from the left-wing wackos...
some of which posted their own pics here:
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/gallery/1/
I reject the premise altogether.
Surely those complexity-loving, nuanced Europeans can see the difference between "for us or against us" and "with us, or with the terrorists".
If they can't, I guess they're pretty simpleminded after all. 8^P
Bravo.
Sounds like Paris needs Rudy Giuliani. Those areas of Paris don't sound all that different from quite a few areas in New York City under David Dinkins, mayor.
Rudy Giuliani came in and cleaned up the city making it a whole lot safer for the law abiding residents. He operated on the "broken window" theory of law enforcement.
Paris needs to not look at these young men as Muslims, but as lawbreakers who are preventing decent law-abiding citizens from having full access to their city. People have the right to live in peace and security. A government's duty is to protect the population.
Paris does itself no favors by not enforcing its laws and actually creates an atmosphere where more disorder, chaos, and danger can grow.
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