Battle Rifle Advice Wanted

self ^ | Tuesday, November 9 | self

[Travis McGee]

EOTech is way better than an Aimpoint. Much better unrestricted field of view, and the circle/dot reticle is MUCH faster than the single dot of the Aimpoint. Aimpoint is 25 year old technology, EOTech is state of the art for 1X mag sighting. Nothing is faster for multiple moving targets, nothing.

[July 4th]

Does anyone know a reputable FAL dealer? I'm looking for one in metric - the US-made models are way too expensive. (Might as well buy a M1A).

[calex59]

congrats, you've narrowed it down to about 4 or 5 choices or maybe 6 or 7. You should be able to make a choice very easily now...Personally, I will stick with my Ruger M-77 .300 win mag. for long shots although I am a great lover of the M-14 and used to prize the M-1 Garand over all battle rifles and it is still a fine weapon but others are now much better.

[Travis McGee]

A Great Discussion of EOTech, Aimpoint, and ACOG.

Be sure to read all three pages.

[Chode]

AR10 like the AR15 have gas tubes instead of a piston like the M1, M1A or an AK and are harder to clean and require more maint. than piston driven rifles.

the HK91 however has neither and is simpler to maintain.

[mad_as_he$$]

Yes they are two of my all time heros. They knew exactly what they were getting into - and what their chances were of making it out. It doesn't get much press but I believe there were 50 - 100 dead skinnies around the Blackhawk. Not bad.

I have it on good authority that x-42 was stiffed on that day.

BTW have you read Durant's book? In the Company of Hero's. He tells things he didn't tell Bowden.

[Travis McGee]

PS: the pictures taken through the EOTech sight don't really look like the reticle looks like to the shooter. It must be a trick of perspective or something, in the picture the reticle circle appears pea-size, but to the shooter, the reticle circle appears coin-sized. It just leaps out at you.

[injin]

Para FN-Fal
find an original , not a kit

[kennyboy509]

You can't do with 1 battle rifle.

The first one should be an M1 Garand.

Get it thrrough the department of Civilian Marksmanship.

Qualifying is not that hard but does take a few months.

Cheap way to get a fine rifle!

Here's de link Mann:

http://www.odcmp.com/

[MissAmericanPie]

The M14 is real nice.

[Blue Jays]

PING to self...

[Tunehead54]

Bump for reference - all I've got is a Glock M19 for home defense but should I get a battle rifle if I'm not a hunter? Is there something going on I should know? Oh - those Islamists that want to kill each and every one of us? Guess its time to go shopping ... I must say though you guys could give us rubes a few more dot-com references eg FN-FAL?

With the AWB gone can I get a good AK-47? ;-)

[injin]

re: Para Fal , here's a few

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=25191203

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=25247333

not cheap , but hey, ya get what ya pay for....

[investigateworld]

self ping

[SaltyJoe]

Many swear by the Israeli Galil:

http://remtek.com/arms/imi/galil/galil.htm

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as23-e.htm

It comes in 7.62mm x 51 (NATO) or .308 caliber. The above link will give you a good history.

If the Israelis like it, then you can bet it's a good design. If their forces are armed with it, then you can bet it's combat proven.

I've never used it, but I have used the M-16A3 (5.56mm x 45 NATO). It's a solid rifle and I highly recommend it. If I were going to get a rifle in a .308, then I'd look at the Galil.

[Lurker]

You know Travis, I tried that EOTECH sight, but I just didn't like it. The Aimpoint Comp just seemed to 'fit my head' or 'fit my eyes' or something.

Of course, it's mounted on my AR and I never tried it on my M1A, so you might just be right. HOWEVER, I am more than satisfied with the performance of my Aimpoint. The way it's mounted once I have acquired the sight picture the outside of the scope just disappears and all I have is that little red dot.

No matter how I try to screw things up, the bullet just keeps hitting within an inch of where that little dot is. That's good enough for me.

I've done stress fire drill with it, and I personally really like it. I suspect that, as usual, it's going to come down to ones personal preferences. IMO the best thing to do would be to mount one of each of them on whatever weapon one is considering buying and putting a few mags of ammo through it.

I used this method with the EOTECH and the Aimpoint and for me, and that's just for me, I found that I preferred the Aimpoint product.

I really wanted an ACOG, but I didn't have that kind of dough in the budget at the time.

Sorry to pick nits buddy, but I don't think that it would well serve friend Mulder to advise him to not check out both products.

I think the whole argument is just a bit academic as he seems interested in 7.62 NATO rifles and I must say that I don't think either system is suitable for FN or M1A platforms.

However, IIRC didn't Triji make a really nice optical system designed for the FN platform? For some reason I seem to remember something I saw in a Cheaper Than Dirt catalog a few months back.

Good seeing you again. When's EFAD II coming out?

Regards,

L

[Old Sarge Ski]

The 5.56mm (or .223 Remington in its civilian version) is best when using the heavier bullets up to the equivalent of the 77gr Boat-tail (which is a copy of the military Stoner bullet) that matches the lethality of the .308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO) at 350m given that your barrel twist can handle the length of the heavier bullet without causing stability problems. If you don't mind recoil (which is a function of velocity and bullet weight) stick with the NATO (.308) round. If you are susceptible to recoil go with the 5.56mm round, just make sure your target is within the 350m lethality limitation. (THE 350m lethality measure was developed by the US Army in the 1970s as a benchmark during the Cold War. Warsaw Pact doctrine had infantry dismounting from BMPs at that range for assaults.)
As far as scopes are concerned, go for a 3X9 variable with a mil-dot reticle. A fixed 4 power doesn't offer the variety of options that a variable does. And the mil-dot, once you learn how to use it, let's you judge range without having to futz around with tables or cams or any of the other kind of crap that takes time and losses your target.
The FN is OK, as is the H&K, but I would stick with the M1A or the Ruger Mini-14 just because I like them. All are gas operated in one form or another and the recoil is therefore diminished.
But if'n you want real fun go for a good ole M-1 in 30-06. It'll really reach out an touch someone.

[Noumenon]

Coming in on the FAL side of the argument, I'd also point out that the field-adjustable gas system can be a life-saver if you're really running through the ammo. When there's no time to clean a battle-fouled rifle, the adjustable gas system will allow you to put rounds down range for a while longer.

General take - a well set-up M14 shoots like a dream, but the economics of it make it a pricey item. Used to own an HK91 - shot really well, but it did tend to beat me up, recoil-wise. Also, that delayed roller block assembly can be a royal bitch to contend with when you're trying to clean the rifle out in the field and under some pressure. The FALs I have shot way better than I can, and I could and did afford two of them (plus another kit for spares) for the price of a nicely turned out Springfield Armory M14.

Another StG 58 FAL note - after about 60-80 rounds or so, it does tend to get a bit hot around the foregrip. GLoves of some sort are a good idea for any battle kit.

As harpseal used to say, "Stay well, stay safe, stay armed."

It ain't over yet, not by a long shot.

[NoLibZone]

What if you live in Kalifornia?

Can any of these be legal?

[GunnyB]

If you are looking for a modern, well-made, seriously tough weapon, then consider either the Heckler & Koch 91 (7.62 NATO/.308 Win) or 93 (5.56). Bother are incredibly tough weapons. In addition, they are easy to maintain, have tons of extras (magazines, stocks, slings, battle sights, etc.), and are extremely accurate. I've got one of each in my safe - with lots of mags - lots of mags because once you start shooting these beasts you won't want to stop for a long time...