Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

European Debate of Islam Heats Up
AP via Yahoo! ^ | 11/06/2004 | BRIAN MURPHY

Posted on 11/06/2004 12:05:10 PM PST by BJClinton

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - A five-page letter pinned to the body of a Dutch filmmaker brutally murdered after making a movie critical of Islam called for Muslims to rise up against the "infidel enemies" in the West.

Photo
AP Photo

 

Other messages — later left at the sidewalk shrine where Theo van Gogh's throat was slashed — dripped with equal venom against radical Islam. "Enemies live among us," read one missive in a bed of flowers, votive candles and crosses.

Europe's complex interplay with Islam appears to stand at a tipping-point and Tuesday's slaying of the 47-year-old filmmaker as he was riding his bike down a busy boulevard in Amsterdam could indicate one direction in which it is headed.

"The Muslims say they're scared," said mourner Nicolette Toering. "No, we're scared."

Dutch authorities were investigating whether the chief suspect, a 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan man detained shortly after the attack, acted alone out of rage or had links to wider extremist networks.

The attack has underscored the hard political and social choices that European leaders face about Muslims and the wider Islamic world.

In December, European Union (news - web sites) leaders will decide whether to overlook widespread public objections and move ahead with membership talks with Turkey, a Muslim nation of about 70 million people and a galloping birthrate that could push it past Germany's population in a generation.

European police agencies have sharply boosted cooperation against suspected Islamic terrorist groups following the March train bombings in Spain that killed 191 people. Washington's European allies in Iraq (news - web sites) are reassessing their levels of military and commercial support following waves of attacks, kidnappings and beheadings blamed on Islamic militants.

EU officials last month signed the text of a proposed EU Constitution that still could face opposition from voters demanding a clear reference to Europe's Christian history.

But those big issues fade on the streets of many European centers. Here — even in places like tolerant Amsterdam — it's often expressed as a gnawing feeling that militant factions in Islamic immigrant communities are gaining ground and chipping away at values such as free speech and secular politics.

"There is a general feeling that a social collision is becoming inevitable," said Jan Rath, co-director of the Institute for Migration and Ethnic Studies at the University of Amsterdam. "People think it's been building for years and now finally coming to the surface."

The landmarks along the way included the 1989 death threat "fatwa," or religious edict, against British writer Salman Rushdie for alleged insults to Islam in "The Satanic Verses," the rise of neo-Fascist movements, the assassination of Dutch anti-immigrant politician Pim Fortuyn in 2002 and France's ongoing showdown with Muslims over a ban on headscarves and other religious apparel in schools.

"My impression is the European voices that say, `Everyone is equal, but we are more equal than Muslims,' are growing," Rath said.

The Netherlands offers a good vantage point to gauge changing attitudes toward Muslim communities across Europe — which have grown more than 100 percent in the past 15 years, according to U.N. reports. Some sources place the Muslim population as high as 13.5 million in Western Europe, or more than 2 percent of the population, in addition to more than 6 million native-born Muslims in the Balkans.

Unlike the French or Spanish, the Dutch long had little direct contact with Islam apart from a colonial presence in distant Indonesia that ended in 1949. Muslim immigrants began arriving following World War II as reconstruction labor — as they did in Germany and other countries.

The workers, mostly Turks, assimilated well into Dutch society. Moroccans and other North Africans began arriving in the 1970s and 1980s, when more lenient laws allowed men to bring in their families.

But the situation in Holland was getting tougher. Jobs were more scarce — especially for the Moroccan immigrant children — and some politicians began trying to connect the rising crime rate with the swelling Muslim community: now about 1 million in a country of 16 million people.

 

Last year, a parliament member, Geert Wilders, pressed for a five-year ban on immigration from Turkey and Morocco. Dutch anti-terrorist agents, meanwhile, have intensified probes into alleged radical recruitment among young Muslims.

Van Gogh — a distant relative of the famous 19th-century Dutch painter Vincent Van Gogh — often tested the boundaries of free expression by denouncing Muslims in the most graphic terms. His last work, "Submission," a joint project with Somali-born lawmaker Ayaan Hirsi Ali, attacked the treatment of women under Islam.

The filmmaker's fans were as passionate as his detractors.

"He was trying to warn us about the dangers of radical Islam," said teacher Geert Plas as he visited the site where Van Gogh was ambushed. "Now maybe we'll listen. To me this is not just a small event. It's part of the World Trade Center and Madrid. We must see this."

The letter pinned to the victim's body also threatened death to Hirsi Ali, who has gone into hiding, and predicted the downfall of the "infidel enemies of Islam" in Europe, America and the Netherlands.

"The jihad (holy war) has come to the Netherlands," parliament speaker Jozias van Aartsen said.

The memorials that piled up on the dark brick sidewalk often crossed the line from sympathy to seething recriminations. "This is the true face of Islam," said a handwritten message. A framed poem called "Imam" ends with a stanza: "If you want to improve the world, start with yourself and your faith."

A banner waved from a fence: "Theo rests his case."

Christian prayer cards, crosses and biblical passages sat amid the flowers — a rare religious outpouring in one of Europe's most secular states.

"This doesn't just say something about the Netherlands," said Baukje Prins, assistant professor of social philosophy at Holland's Groninjen University. "It is an example of how international relations have become polarized."

At a mosque near the murder site, Friday prayers were dominated by talk of the slaying — sprinkled with worry about a possible backlash.

"We are in danger," a Moroccan man told a group of friends sitting in a circle on a carpeted floor.

"No, no," another man said. "We cannot give in to fear. This is our home now."

Moulay Idrissi listened and shook his head.

"I'm afraid. I can't deny it," said Idrissi, who emigrated from Morocco in 1978. "I feel respect for Muslims is falling away in Europe. When people have no respect, anything can happen."

A few hours later, suspected arsonists set fire to a mosque in the central Dutch city of Utrecht, but no injuries were reported.

A 22-year-old student, Abdul Salam, said he tries to tell Christian friends that Muslims have been in Europe since the Moors crossed into Spain in the 8th century.

"So I don't know what to think when people say I don't belong here because I'm Muslim," he said. "I was born here. I don't even speak Arabic. I am European. That's what I feel. That's what I am."

But Salam represents just one side of an internal struggle within Muslim communities in Europe, said Akbar Ahmed, a professor of Islamic studies at American University in Washington.

"Right now the West sees all Islam as a kind of monolith and wipes away all nuances," said Ahmed. "Some want to draw boundaries around Islam in Europe. Other Muslims want to deal with non-Muslims in a broad and tolerant way. It's not new to Islam. It's just new to Europe."


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: amsterdam; islam; jihad; jihadineurope; koran; muslim; muslims; napalminthemorning; netherlands; quran; ragheadsraus; religionofpeace; terrorism; terrorist; theovangogh; wakeup; wot
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-82 next last
To: BJClinton

"A 22-year-old student, Abdul Salam, said he tries to tell Christian friends that Muslims have been in Europe since the Moors crossed into Spain in the 8th century." murdering Christians to a fare thee well and having a great time while doing it.


41 posted on 11/06/2004 1:29:41 PM PST by Max Combined (There is in human nature generally more of the fool than of the wise.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: omega4412
From Reuters via Yaoo!

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Dutch police have made a fresh arrest in the investigation into the murder of a filmmaker who was critical of Islam, while two other suspects were released, the Amsterdam prosecutor said on Saturday.

Photo
Reuters Photo


Slideshow

 

Amsterdam police arrested a 23-year-old of Moroccan origin on Friday and seized computers and video cassettes from his house.

The prosecutor said in a statement the man was being held on suspicion of belonging to a criminal organization with "terrorist intent," and "conspiracy to murder with a terrorist character" in connected with murdered filmmaker Theo van Gogh, liberal member of parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali and others.

A total of nine people have been arrested in the wake of the stabbing and shooting of Van Gogh on an Amsterdam street on Tuesday, including the two who were subsequently released.

The main suspect, a 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan identified as Mohammed B. in the media, was charged with the murder on Friday. He was also charged with membership of a group with "terrorist intentions" and conspiracy to murder a politician.

The suspect was wounded in his leg during a shoot out with police and is being held in a prison hospital in the western town of Scheveningen.

Van Gogh angered many Muslims with a short television film, called Submission, about violence against women in Islamic society. The film was written by Hirsi Ali, a Somali refugee who became a member of the VVD liberal party.

A five-page letter pinned with a knife on the body of Van Gogh contained a death threat against Hirsi Ali and she is now in hiding

42 posted on 11/06/2004 1:30:09 PM PST by BJClinton (Poster under heavy sedation; do not take posts seriously.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Max Combined

The Moors got all the way to France. And the Ottomans got all the way to Vienna. Yeah, those Muslims have a long history of peaceful, brotherly relations with Europe.


43 posted on 11/06/2004 1:32:18 PM PST by BJClinton (Poster under heavy sedation; do not take posts seriously.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: jocon307
Agreed, we need to encourage white people to have more babies in this country too.

Hmmmm. I believe they are to selfish especially the women and the odds are against the sperm.

With the MSM population control agenda, condoms, birth control, abortion, homosexualism and feminism a Rose Kennedy size family

turned into a Jackie Kennedy size family,

to a biologically childless family!

Good Luck White People.

Welcome your new neighbors!!!


How about some Muslim-Islamic culturalorientation.

44 posted on 11/06/2004 1:32:41 PM PST by Major_Risktaker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: inflames

Hey, hello to Ireland!

I have had a few Irish students(I'm a flight instructor), and they were pretty cool.

Sooner or later,:(but in Irish that I don't remember) they all repeated one saying:

"Our time will come."

The Swedes that I trained, I'm sad to say, were mostly major jerks.

The English, 50-50. Seemed like that depended on whether or not they considered England part of Europe.


45 posted on 11/06/2004 1:35:17 PM PST by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: BJClinton

All this, in the name of 'diversity'.

Aint it grand?


46 posted on 11/06/2004 1:36:08 PM PST by GaltMeister
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: montag813

I agree. They breed like rabbits.


47 posted on 11/06/2004 1:38:39 PM PST by Max Combined (There is in human nature generally more of the fool than of the wise.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: BJClinton

Please, all you continental Europeans out there, I beg you to wake up, these savages are out to destroy you once again just like centuries ago. Ford God's sake, don't go gently into that good night!


48 posted on 11/06/2004 1:43:25 PM PST by jpl (The tribe has spoken, now for goodness sake, get a life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jocon307
I read in Goldberg's book Bias that a river of hatred flows from the cities and villages of the Mid-East right into the cockpits of the 9-11 highjackers. It is high time the non-Muslim world wake up to a fact that Israelis have known about Islam for years. Islam is a repressive political system (like Communism and Fascism) as well as a repressive religious system the likes of which humanity has not seen in history. It is an enigma to folks steeped in Western values of toleration. We'd better dummy up and begin to see Islam for what it really is--a malignant and backward socio-political ideology out to squeeze all of humanity in its repressive vice.
49 posted on 11/06/2004 1:53:02 PM PST by attiladhun2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: jocon307
I read in Goldberg's book Bias that a river of hatred flows from the cities and villages of the Mid-East right into the cockpits of the 9-11 highjackers. It is high time the non-Muslim world wake up to a fact that Israelis have known about Islam for years. Islam is a repressive political system (like Communism and Fascism) as well as a repressive religious system the likes of which humanity has not seen in history. It is an enigma to folks steeped in Western values of toleration. We'd better dummy up and begin to see Islam for what it really is--a malignant and backward socio-political ideology out to squeeze all of humanity in its repressive vice.
50 posted on 11/06/2004 1:54:58 PM PST by attiladhun2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Max Combined

You are much too kind. A more apt statement would be that they breed like flies.


51 posted on 11/06/2004 1:59:20 PM PST by Bogolyubski
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: attiladhun2

"Islam is a ...repressive religious system the likes of which humanity has not seen in history."

Yes, I cannot think of another. Of course SOME of the repression of women is cultural, it's pretty bad in India too and not just amoung the Muslims there. But I look back on the days I knew nothing about Islam as days of blissful ignorance. I knew it repressed women though, even when I knew nothing about it.

Jesus said "render unto Cesar that which is Cesar's" Islam wants to be religion and law all at once.

I am quite sure that the world's conflict with Islam will only grow. And I'm sorry to say I don't think that conflict will be confined to just the terrorists.

Europe and America should end ALL immigration IMMEDIATELY. They need to re-think the entire process and figure out what to do with the people already there. This will also end the re-inforcement of isolation that a continuing influx of new immigrants cause in the overseas community.

And I would like someone to ask some pol how they square immigration vs. unemployment in the US, and maybe in Europe too. Maybe esp. in Europe. Why do they need immigrants when they've got 10% unemployment rates?


52 posted on 11/06/2004 2:06:30 PM PST by jocon307 (Maintain the mandate!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: jocon307

America imigration sevices first' should restrict imigrants from moslem countries, second should activelly welcome European christians.


53 posted on 11/06/2004 2:14:46 PM PST by lulo_08
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: lulo_08

"America imigration sevices first' should restrict imigrants from moslem countries, second should activelly welcome European christians."

I agree, especially those who are being staunch in their support, the Brits, the Poles, the Italians.


54 posted on 11/06/2004 2:19:11 PM PST by jocon307 (Maintain the mandate!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: jocon307

too late to fix old europe.


55 posted on 11/06/2004 2:21:28 PM PST by lulo_08
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: BJClinton

Childish question asked in a childish way: Don't Muslims have their own countries?


56 posted on 11/06/2004 2:47:43 PM PST by Continental Soldier
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Continental Soldier

All but Saudi Arabia were somebody else's country before they took them.


57 posted on 11/06/2004 2:54:34 PM PST by BJClinton (Poster under heavy sedation; do not take posts seriously.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: jocon307

"Agreed, we need to encourage white people to have more babies in this country too."

Or adopt children from here and abroad.


58 posted on 11/06/2004 3:02:25 PM PST by itslex71 (southern by birth, republican by the grace of my dad)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: BJClinton

Please is 'alstublieft'

here some articles:

'Thou shalt not kill' removed from wall in Rotterdam (because of complaints by muslims)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1272223/posts

Eight arrested in investigation of murder of Dutch filmmaker
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1268936/posts

Terror charges for Dutch suspect
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1271735/posts

Dutch Politician Threatened in Letter Left on Body of Murdered Filmmaker
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1271036/posts

Director Theo van Gogh murdered in Amsterdam (for his political views)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1266110/posts


59 posted on 11/06/2004 3:06:23 PM PST by knighthawk (We will always remember We will always be proud We will always be prepared so we may always be free)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: itslex71

"Or adopt children from here and abroad."

That's good too.


60 posted on 11/06/2004 3:08:54 PM PST by jocon307 (Maintain the mandate!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-82 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson