Only Muslims Dedicated to Islam Can Defeat Extremism

Radio Free Europe Radio Liberty ^ | 11/01/04 | Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty

[Snapple]

Right. But if you want that to change you can't just call them names. You have to bring out the examples of tolerance in their scripture. This site seems to do that.

http://www.harunyahya.com/

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

All you need to know about Islam, from the Qur'an itself:


[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.


[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair [Ezra] is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!


[9.31] They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one God only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).

Simply debating Muslims about religion is considered an attack and an attempt to convert and worthy of death:


[9.32] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse.


From hadith (A hadith is strong when it has many sources.):

Bukhari 4:52:177 - Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.177

("The Hour" refers to the end of time, i.e. on the Last Day)

Bukhari 4:56:791 - Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' "

Muslim 41:6981 - Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me) ; kill him.

Muslim 41:6982 - Ubaidullah has reported this hadith with this chain of transmitters (and the Words are):" There is a Jew behind me."

Muslim 41:6983 - Abdullah b. 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.

Muslim 41:6984 - Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.

Muslim 41:6985 - Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/041.smt.html#041.6981

You can try to interpret these other than what they say. But the only thing that will stop people from acting on them in the long run is the obliteration of Islam.

[Dec31,1999]

You can look in any religious scripture and find justifications for about anything.

You'd like it to be true, but it just isn't.

Give an example, then.

*crickets*

[Dec31,1999]

In my dealing with Muslims, I try to be a good Christian. Comming off like a jerk doesn't make them respect my faith.

So from which part of the Bible did you interpret that Jesus taught you to be naive and to have your head cut off? :)

[RAY]

The Islamic Terrorist and their sympathizers are all our enemies; who are their sympathizers may be one of our greatest surprises and mistakes.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

You have to bring out the examples of tolerance in their scripture.

There is a structure to the Qur'an. Later parts supercede earlier parts. The order that Muhammad dictated the surahs is not the order they are placed in the Qur'an. References to tolerance are from the early part when Muhammad was weak. Surah 9 is actually the 113th and next-to-last "revealed" in which peace with non-Muslims is repudiated and perpetual war declared.

[9.1] (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.
[9.2] So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
[9.3] And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.
[9.4] Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.6] And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.
[9.7] How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Apostle; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
[9.8] How (can it be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of them are transgressors.
[9.9] They have taken a small price for the communications of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that they do.
[9.10] They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond the limits.
[9.11] But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.
[9.12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.

(Just speaking against Islam!)

(The last surah is the small 110th)

[gitmogrunt]

In addition to U.S. ground forces,American B-52's will defeat these slime, if the we had leaders with cahones to give the order.

[Dec31,1999]

In my dealing with Muslims, I try to be a good Christian. Comming off like a jerk doesn't make them respect my faith.

So from which part of the Bible did you interpret that Jesus taught you to be naive and to have your head cut off? :)

[Iscool]

There is not one Islam

Yer too late...We all now know better...

I remember watching the news report in Israel where 'muzlims' were in a window opening ripping apart the body of non muzlim...And with the wide open exposure to the world of the islamic cult, we see that this is the norm for the religion, not the exception...We have learned that muzlim kids are taught these practices and beliefs, IN AMERICA...

Your message no longer holds water...We see the holes...

[expat_panama]

In my dealing with Muslims, I try to be a good Christian.... ... Jesus taught you to be naive and to have your head cut off?

The key difference here is that Snapple actually knows and talks with Moslems, and Dec is the kind of Christian who won't talk to Moslems but just wants to kill them.  Those of us who know Moslems realize that some of them say one thing and others say different-- just like Christians.

BTW Dec, are you planning on just killing all 1.3 billion Moslems outright or will you offer them a chance to see the light of Christianity first?  We all know that you're saying the Moslems started it and it's all their fault so you're justified, but which is it, death or conversion?

 

[Valin]

Riiiight.

[Valin]

No No No As all REAL Freepers know all REAL muslims live only to kill us, and are bloodthristy barbarians.
/world class sarcasm

[expat_panama]

On a serios note, we have to admit that (1) the Freerepublic is a tremedous force for good, and (2) there're a heck of a lot of freepers who're on this "kill all Moslems" shtick, and that (2) errodes (1).

I keep asking myself if there isn't something that can be done, but then again we've faced the same problem with the Church also. I wonder.

[MarMema]

Still waiting, btw, to hear about Putin kissing up to the terrorist Mashkadov as you predicted with such certainty awhile back.

That was when you were practising your famous tolerance toward the chechens, but not the Russians, as I recall.

[Snapple]

The Muslims I know are lovely and normal. They don't cut off my head. They send me christmas cards.

[Snapple]

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/11/bc0b64fe-cd5f-4eb1-9d6e-179b625047e4.html

Chechen President Congratulates Bush, As Do South Caucasus States
By Liz Fuller

Aslan Maskhadov (file photo)

Aslan Maskhadov has sent a telegram to George W. Bush congratulating him on his reelection to a second term as U.S. president, chechenpress.info reported on 5 November. Maskhadov characterizes the United States as a country that embodies for all mankind the principles of democracy and human rights. He said that in their unequal struggle, the Chechen people derive inspiration from the values proclaimed by the U.S. founding fathers. He hailed President Bush personally as embodying "the lofty principles that are fundamental for all those who battle against tyranny."


In a commentary on chechenpress.info, Maskhadov's envoy Akhmed Zakaev explained that while many Chechens may consider Maskhadov's words of congratulation misplaced in light of Bush's proclaimed support for what Zakaev termed Russian President Vladimir Putin's "criminal regime," Maskhadov was in fact hailing Bush not as an individual political figure, but as the head of a state founded on principles that are dear to all Chechens. "The fact that Bush has retreated from those principles does not detract from the significance of America as a symbol of the struggle for the freedom of oppressed peoples," Zakaev argued. "In expressing respect for the U.S. principles of freedom and democracy, we are simply stressing to what degree the current U.S. administration has retreated from those principles by upholding the Kremlin's regime of tyranny," Zakaev concluded.
(edited here)

[Snapple]

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=33047

Russian mothers launch party against Chechen war
AFP: 11/6/2004
MOSCOW, Nov 5 (AFP) - Some weeping and many dressed in shabby clothes, several hundred elderly mothers gathered on a boat in Moscow on Saturday to launch a political party calling for peace in separatist Chechnya and democracy in Russia.

The unusual rally gathered 164 deputies -- a handful of them elderly fathers -- representing 50 of Russia's 88 regions. They all rose hands in favor of launching a political party against a war that helped Russian President Vladimir Putin rise to power five years ago.

Called the United People's Party of Soldiers' Mothers, the group has already been accused by Russian nationalists of being funded from abroad -- an accusation it does not deny, but which it says is not illegal -- and has recently offered to launch peace talks with separatist Chechen leader Aslan Maskhadov.

The Kremlin views Maskhadov and other Chechen commanders as "terrorists" out of bounds for any kind of negotiations, placing a 10 million dollar bounty on his head.

"We have decided to enter politics because Russia is changing for the worse," said party representative Ida Kuklina, addressing the downcast crowd from a podium as military songs played on in the background.

"Human rights groups are having more and more difficulty functioning in Russia," Kuklina said. "Our future is unclear, and we no longer seem to be able to affect the government, or our country's future."

She spoke against the background of a song whose chorus read: "Mothers, don't give birth to boys just so that they could go to war."

The group was previously only registered as a committee, and its registration as a party allows it to field candidates for regional and parliamentary elections.

Few analysts expect it to make much of an impact on Russia's politics, and the meeting received only limited coverage in the Moscow media, which has fallen largely under state control since Putin rose to power in 2000.

But the gathering forms a rare show of public opposition to Putin's regime, with parliament now dominated by pro-Kremlin factions and legislation swept through the chamber often without debate.

The mothers' party disputes official Russian figures that just over 5,000 Russian soldiers have died in the Chechen war, saying the toll is at least three times higher because Moscow does not count soldiers killed of their wounds in hospital at a later date.

The rebel or civilian casualty figures have never been officially verified.

A wave of suicide bombings and September's Beslan school hostage crisis which ended up killing more than 340 people, half of them children, have sparked new talk about negotiations with the guerrillas, despite firm refusal to do so by Russian authorities.

Calls by the mothers' party to help lead such talks have been flatly slapped down by the Kremlin, although recent public opinion polls suggest about half of all Russians support some form of official contact between the two sides.

"Our party is going to be the party of peace and reconciliation," Kuklina said.

Another top party official, Maria Fedulova, told the Interfax news agency that the first contacts with Maskhadov's officials would be made later this month, but disclosed no further details.

"We are doing this ... to prevent future hostage takings."

Interfax said the meeting would take place "in one of the Western nations," but gave no details of who might be involved.



11/06/2004 18:27 GMT - AFP

[Snapple]

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/11/01/maskhadovminister.shtml

A minister from the self-proclaimed Chechen Republic of Ichkeria promised to “forget and forgive all offences of the past if Russian authorities start negotiations for peace”.

Umar Khambiyev spoke at a conference on Chechnya held in Stockholm over the weekend, Kommersant newspaper wrote on Monday. Being the health minister of Aslan Maskhadov’s government, he said he spoke on his behalf. Maskhadov is ready to resign if an interim international administration heads Chechnya, Khambiyev said.

The conference was held by the Swedish human rights organization “Swedish Peace and Arbitration Society” (SPAS). Khambiyev who currently lives in France was the only Maskhadov aide to attend the conference. Russian embassy officials refused to take part in it, the paper wrote.

“The position of our state on the issue of peace negotiations with Maskhadov’s people is well-known,” they were quoted by the paper as saying. “With them, there is nothing to talk about but the conditions of surrender.”

Swedish Foreign Ministry officials also refused to attend the conference. “This looks like a gesture of support for (Russian president) Vladimir Putin and correspondingly an oblique approval of his extremely rough politics in Chechnya,” the SPAS president, Frida Blom, said.

Khambiyev’s statement was criticized by Chechen separatist leaders. Maskhadov’s official spokesman, Usman Ferzauli, quoted by the paper said Khambiyev “acted spontaneously”.

“No one has given him the right to speak on behalf of the president and the Chechen people,” Ferzauli said, calling Khambiyev’s words on Maskhadov’s possible resignation “nonsense”.

“It is useless call on human rights activists, even if very authoritative. It is possible to stop the war with the good will of the Russian and Chechen leadership, no intermediaries are needed here,” the paper quoted Ferzauli as saying.

Umar Khambiyev is a brother of Magomed Khambiyev, Maskhadov’s defense minister who surrendered to Russian troops in March.

[investigateworld]

No Slurppe for you!