Looted Al QaQaa 'explosives' are in fact urinary antiseptic

Exclusive (So far) to FR ^ | 11/4/2004 | Gerard S Harbison, AKA Right Wing Professor

[Right Wing Professor]

The Los Angeles Times this morning ran an article on the alleged looting of the Al QaQaa explosives. Pivotal to the article, whcih relied on unidentified GI alleged witnesses to the looting, was this:

One soldier said U.S. forces watched the looters' trucks loaded with bags marked "hexamine" — a key ingredient for HMX — being driven away from the facility. Unsure what hexamine was, the troops later did an Internet search and learned of its explosive power.

"We found out this was stuff you don't smoke around," the soldier said.

The trouble is, it's completely bogus. Hexamine isn't an explosive, and has no 'explosive power'. It's a urinary antiseptic. It is used in the synthesis of RDX and HMX - but without a chemical plant and a number of other chemical ingredients, some dangerous and hard to obtain, you can't make RDX or HMX from it. All the explosive properties of RDX and HMX come from the fuming nitric acid which is another ingredient in the manufacture. I doubt you could even get hexamine to burn decently, let alone explode. I wouldn't be at all surprised that Saddam was manufacturing RDX and HMX, and that's why he had sacks of hexamine, but no terrorist is going to be able to do anything with hexamine (except, maybe, treat his gonorrhea).

I'm befuddled how the LA Times could have used a second-hand google search as a source for the most element on the story. I contacted them, and their 'reader representative' gave me an implausible story of how they'd checked their chemical information with the Encyclopedia Britannica, but promised to tell their editors. I'm not holding my breath waiting for a correction.

In case I need to establish my credentials on this, just google 'hexamethylenetetramine harbison' and look at the first hit. Hexamethylenetetramine is the correct chemical name of hexamine. I've done quite a bit of published research with the stuff.

[Right Wing Professor]

It also has some unadvertised hallucinogenic properties if taken internally.

In case if anyone is tempted to try this, I wouldn't. I believe it (I've heard of people huffing formalin, too), but formaldehyde (which is what the stuff breaks down to in the body) is nasty stuff. There's a reason people use it to preserve cadavers.

[Young Werther]

As we used to say,

"What a Pisser!"

[Teslas Pigeon]

From your post: "Organic synthesis industry: Additives in deodorising powder, absorption of phosgene gas, preservation of fresh products"


phosgene is a chemical warfare agent, used in WWI. This stuff absorbs it?

[Right Wing Professor]

"What a Pisser!"

Pissah is good, where I used to live. The Red Sox ah pissah.

[Netizen]

I searched and kept getting 'formaldehyde derivative'.

http://www.wrightcorp.com/formaldehyde_hexamine.asp

http://www.saudiform.com/hexamine.html

http://www.alliedresins.com/hexamine.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexamine

[dts32041]

Yeah but don't step on it why it is burning.

[PowerPro]

bump

[Right Wing Professor]

I searched and kept getting 'formaldehyde derivative'.

That's right. You mix formaldehyde and ammonia, you get hexamine. Even if they claim that hexamine could be used to manufacture RDX or (more difficultly) HMX, so could formaldehyde and ammonia. This stuff is a common commodity chemical, not some mystic powerful explosive.

The difficulties in making high explosives are two-fold

1. Getting the right grade of nitric acid (the usual 70% acid won't generally do)
2. Not blowing your fool head off in the process

With a few hundred thousand tons of high explosives in Iraq already, even supposing one of these bozos knew how to, why would a terrorist try to manufacture RDX?

[Ramius]

Kudos Professor... looks like the LAT ran with a pretty lame story. Looks to me like you've given a whole new set of legs to the story. :-)

Nicely done.

[Kirkwood]

"It is, apparently, flammable.I was speculating about that; my bad. But it sure ain't explosive."

Actually in can be explosive. The ERG says: "Powders, dusts, shavings, borings, turnings, or cuttings may explode or burn with explosive violence."

It also says responders must wear SCBA (breathing gear) and that structural firefighter clothing is inadequate.

If spilled, you need to evacuate 100 meters downwind.

If on fire (as in a tank car spill), you need to evacuate 1/2 mile in all directions due to explosive capability.

I used to be an emergency manager, so I have access to an ERG, but you can find one on-line; probably at FEMA or the Fire Institute.

[Teslas Pigeon]

Look like this stuff has a lot of uses. From a military website (the H-Helmet referred to is soaked in calcium hypochlorite):

In the fall of 1915 British intelligence learned of Germany's intention to use a new gas, phosgene, a delayed-action choking agent, The Russians had also learned that the Germans intended to employ phosgene and advised the British that a solution of phenate-hexamine was effective in blocking the agent. As a result, the British soaked their H-Helmet in the Russian solution and added an outlet valve to reduce the carbon dioxide buildup inside the mask. The British Army called the new device the "PH-Helmet." The troops called it a. "goggle-eyed booger with a tit."

[Kirkwood]

Here is a pdf ERG 2004. Sounds like you might want one.

http://hazmat.dot.gov/gydebook.htm

[PeteB570]

Check Bio;

We put that to the test one day on Coleman Demo range. Set a small piece burning and tried to drop a 1' square piece of steel on it. Had a heck of a time trying to drop it flat. Everybody who tried it tried to drop and dance back all at the same time and the steel kept coming down at an angle. For all the effort we only got one good snap. Wasted a lot of time but had a good time. Just another of the many dumb things I did when I was much younger.

[Ramius]

Actually in can be explosive. The ERG says: "Powders, dusts, shavings, borings, turnings, or cuttings may explode or burn with explosive violence."

You can say the same thing about flour, coal dust or grain silos. The operative question here is whether looters from the insurgent groups in Iraq have a mechanism to process this stuff into a useful high explosive. The answer would appear to be no, they don't.

[Ramius]

With the quantity of ready-available ordnance in the form of artillery shells, mines, RPG's and grenades to be used in IED production, it is silly to think that any of this stuff would be useful to them.

Besides... if Semtex were being used in IED's around Iraq, we'd know about it by now. It's just not showing up on the street. Q.E.D. This is a non-issue.

[Teslas Pigeon]

"The operative question here is whether looters from the insurgent groups in Iraq have a mechanism to process this stuff into a useful high explosive"

Of course the looters can. If they couldn't why on earth would the LA Times have published the story? </sarcasm off>

[Kirkwood]

That is true, but it doesn't take away the danger of hexamine. A spill of 55 gallons (the lower limit for a large spill definition) is enough to force an evacuation of a 1 mile diameter zone. Think about that for a moment. All you need to do is grind this up into a powder or shavings or liquify it and you have a highly explosive compound. By the way, have you ever seen a silo explosion? Very impressive and very dangerous!

The Right Wing Professor shot off his mouth before having all the facts. That happens a lot around here, so that is why I backed this up with the ERG, which is used by all emergency responders.

[Former Dodger]

Apparently. Didn't Saddaam have phosgene in his WMD arsenal?

from "weapons of war":

Phosgene Gas - Phosgene caused much less coughing with the result that more of it was inhaled; it was consequently adopted by both German and Allied armies. Phosgene often had a delayed effect; apparently healthy soldiers were taken down with phosgene gas poisoning up to 48 hours after inhalation.,?p>

Perhaps he thought that he could use the haexamine as an insulation/protectant.

[NetSurfer]

Don't eat the toilet mints!!

[Right Wing Professor]

Yeah, well, i'm a working chemist, and know how much to believe the kind of material you quoted. i've handled the stuff, grown crystals of it, pulsed it with kilowatt r.f.. It's not an explosive under any sane definition of the term. I was surprised it was particularly flammable.

My guess is the safety concerns arise when you heat it, it releases formaldehyde, and the formaldehyde makes a flammable gaseous mixture. So does gasoline. They have a lot of gasoline in Iraq.