Posted on 10/30/2004 11:33:13 PM PDT by L.A.Justice
If you live in CA, you should vote NO on Prop. 72...This proposition is a step towards socialized medicine. I have seen both pro and con ads on TV. Gov. Arnold stated his opposition...
I found one pro 72 ad to be really annoying. This ad criticizes Wal-Mart for not providing health care to many of its employees. According to the ad, taxpayers picked up the cost of health care for Wal-Mart employees. The ad is designed to stir up "class warfare", like when Democrats accuse "wealthy" of not paying enough taxes. The ad states that Prop 72 will make Wal-Mart pay for the health care.
I guess Prop 72 backers think that Wal-Mart will pay for the health care, WITHOUT laying off employees or raising prices. Really... I don't think Wal-Mart will leave CA if Prop 72 passes. But, it may have to lay off some employees to pay for the health care. I am sure that taxpayers will pay when some former Wal-Mart employees end up on welfare. Wal-Mart may also raise prices which may hurt "poor" people who shop there. I think many backers of Prop 72 are supposed to be "champions" of poor people.
I saw one pro 72 ad, stating that prop 72 is not a government-run health program...The head of CA Medical Association said that in the ad. I actually read the CA Voter Information Guide...Prop 72 is a "pay or play" health care program. Ted Kennedy, the conservative senator from MA, used that term when he proposed his health care plan many years ago.
Under Prop 72, the employers could deal directly with insurance companies and provide health care for employees. Or the employers could pay the State of CA and the state will deal with insurance companies and provide health care. How could one not call Prop 72 a government-run program?
If Prop 72 passes, the employer could only save costs by increasing price or laying off people. According to Prop 72, the employer will be FINED if he/she tries to avoid providing health care by designating an employee as an independent contractor or reduce an employee's hours of work. (Liberals have not prohibited laying off employees yet...)
Prop 72 will be a disaster for CA...I don't see how Gov. Arnold could convince businesses to come to CA after this passes...Many businesses may choose not to expand, to avoid the health care mandate.
Does not matter how they vote on it, if the liberals do not outcome they will just have 9th Circuit Court strike it down for them. Vote on these type of issues in California seem to be done more as a poll, because if you do not vote how liberals want they will just ignore your vote and do it how they want.
Readers should note that mercCPC is a government employee who thinks the government (meaning the taxpayers) should provide the same 'private' health insurance they provide government employees to EVERY single citizen.
And arguing with him on socialized medicine is pointless, because it like arguing with a liberal.
Carry on.
At some point the government is going to have to step in, either by mandating health care for employees or picking up the costs itself (via tax payers, of course). It's simply too dangerous to have a large, uninsured population.
no it isn't.
Health insurance wasn't really heard of at large until the .gov had a period where they instituted wage caps. Then employers started offering health insurance to employees as a way to get around those caps.
Then it became a common perk.
Then it became an expected benefit.
Now people believe it's a right.
3rd party health insurance is one of the causes of the increase in medical costs today. It creates its own problem.
'somebody else' pays for it, so there's no incentive to use it responsibly. Only when people start to see the effects with increased co-pays and a higher portion of their premium do they complain. But they don't complain about the right thign.
Government involvement via medicare/ medicaid and various state programs have just made it even worse. It's like employer health insurance squared. The taxpayers foot most of the bill, and there's no work commitment required.
There was no health care 'crisis' in this country when we didn't have all these insurance programs around. People got sick, they went to the doctor. They paid cash or made payment plans. It worked.
Oh - and another problem - the law reagan signed obligating hospitals to provide emergency treatments whether or not people had insurance. This just leads people without insurance to go to the emergency room (where they don't pay) than the clinic in their neighborhood. The end result - the actual paying customers get stuck with increased costs.
The only thing around now that can fix the costs of rising medical care are tort reform and an increase in personal responsibility - something that Health savings accounts help foster.
If everyone in the country who has insurance now were moved to HSA's where THEY had to pay the premiums and deductibles, health care costs would plummet within a year as people finally realized the actual cost of the treatment - and started using it more wisely.
It's a matter of science and heading off a health catastrophe at this point. What has happened over the last several decades is that new diseases have cropped up -- Hep A to Hep Z, new antibiotic resistant strains of TB, and lord knows what else. Add to that predictions by CDC that another 1918 isn't a matter of "if," but "when."
And, too, there are a few other factors, like the world being more mobile. If 1918 hits us, it'll be like watching a film in the fast-forward mode.
Now, take you're average $8.00 an hour employee -- a trip to the ER is maybe $300 to $400 for him/her. That's a lot of money to them. So, they're going to put off going for as long as possible. In the meantime, they may have passed the bug on to their kids who pass it on to school friends and teachers who pass it on to their kids. Not to mention, this guy -- who doesn't feel all that well -- may have coughed on my salad back in the kitchen.
so the fact that someone else doesn't take care of himself is my problem now?
No thanks. You get government funded health insurance of any kind and you just make the situation worse, not better. Our medical system IS the best in the world simply because it's handled by the free market. It would be even better if the costs were transparent to consumers. It would create price competitition and efficiency where that is currently lacking.
Note the great handling of the flu shot fiasco once the government decided to step in and make it 'more affordable'. They killed the goose.
If they get control of the medical system, they'll start killing us instead.
Yeah, it actually is your problem (and my problem) because that guy may be coughing up blood and mucus on our salads back in the restaurant's kitchen. His infected wife might be sitting next to me the next time I take a plane. And his infected kids might have slobbered over the playground equipment that our kids play on.
congratulations. You're a socialst.
Nope. Nowhere near socialist. But I'm not a fan of pandemics, either. The scenarios I've outline may sound like science fiction, but the threat is very real.
yep. you're a socialist. You believe it's better for the government to take care of other people with someone else's money. Don't see how you can get around that.
And if you're really worried about 'pandemics', socialized medicine should be your last option. Look where sars did the worst damage. It was in countries with government run health care.
Your idea is proven wrong by the simple presence of facts.
If you have a better idea of how to control this stuff, then I'm open to suggestions. No sarcasm there, I really am. This is very, very dangerous stuff.
The problem is you're letting fear guide your thought process.
Instead, go by history and what has proven to work.
In all of the cases, the answer is never 'government run health care'.
I always thought of myself as pretty level headed, but this stuff does scare the crap out of me.
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