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There is overwhelming evidence that the Navy gave John Kerry either a dishonorable discharge or an undesirable discharge – which is the equivalent of a dishonorable discharge without the felony conviction – and that, as a result of such discharge, he was stripped of all of his famous but questionable Navy awards and medals. And the kicker? The evidence is on his website!

Kerry's oh-so-clever handlers evidently depended on the ignorance of the public and the press about military records when they posted his 1978 "Honorable Discharge from the Reserves" on his site as part of a carefully selected partial release of his Navy records (the Navy says it is still withholding about 100 records). However, one diligent researcher, Thomas Lipscomb, saw through the scam and exposed it in a New York Sun story on October 13. Predictably, the major media has shunned the story. What Mr. Lipscomb noticed (and I overlooked when I first read the document) was the date of the posted discharge, Feb. 16, 1978. This was six years after Kerry's six-year (1966-1972) commitment to the Navy ended. The anti-war detractor of our military did not re-up for another six-year term in 1972, so why the delay of his discharge? The only logical conclusion is that the 1978 honorable discharge was a second discharge given to replace an earlier undesirable discharge under less-than-honorable conditions, as unfit for military service.

I was a colonel assigned as Director of Operations of Headquarters, Texas Air National Guard when George W. Bush was a lieutenant in the Air Guard. Since 1999, I have been besieged by the media, from the London Guardian to CBS's Sixty Minutes, NBC, the Boston Globe, and others, with allegations and questions about Lt. Bush's service in and discharge from the Texas Air National Guard and USAF. I recently appeared on Fox & Friends twice to shoot down CBS's phony memos about Lt. Bush and allegations about his discharge. In the interest of fairness and equal time, it is time scrutiny of John Kerry's discharge(s) is demanded.

The Navy is stonewalling Freedom of Information Act requests by Judicial Watch for the rest of Kerry's records – not surprising, because ever since the Tailhook flap, the Navy has had a P.C. virus. Feminist Rep. Patricia Schroeder (D-CO) figuratively castrated the Navy's top brass, and the Navy cringed from political correctness. Pressure and morale at the top was so low that the Chief of Naval Operations committed suicide. The Navy doesn't want to admit it succumbed to political pressure to restore honors stripped from a discredited turncoat. In hiding the truth, the Navy Department dishonors even the lowest-ranking sailor who ever swabbed a deck.

Senator Kerry has said that his medal certificates were reissued because he lost them (and his dog ate his homework, I suppose). Rewards are certified in one's permanent personnel record jacket. If you lose a medal, you can get a replacement medal if your records show the award. The only way awards would have to be reissued is if they were rescinded and deleted from your records. And this narrows the possibilities down to a dishonorable discharge or an undesirable discharge. As Mr. Lipscomb noted, "There is one odd coincidence that gives some weight to the possibility that Mr. Kerry was dishonorably discharged. … (W)hen a dishonorable discharge is issued, all pay benefits, and allowances, and all medals and honors are revoked as well. And five months after Mr. Kerry joined the U.S. Senate in 1985, on one single day, June 4, all of Mr. Kerry's medals were reissued." Military sources tell me that an undesirable discharge under other-than-honorable conditions would also result in a loss of benefits and awards. Kerry could have received a dishonorable discharge, but that would have required a court martial and a felony conviction that might be harder to conceal, so the undesirable discharge is more likely.

The experience of my thirty-plus years in the Navy, U.S. Air Force, and Air National Guard tells me that the late-issued honorable discharge was obviously a cover-up whitewash. Ditto for the re-issuance of Kerry's medals shortly after he became a member of the "ol' boys club" in the Senate.

One of the top dogs in that club, Sen. John Warner, has amnesia about "any representation" about Kerry receiving a less than honorable discharge, even though he was Nixon's Secretary of the Navy when Kerry delivered his diatribe against the Navy and other services in the Senate in April, 1971. In May of 1970, Kerry conferred with the Viet Cong in Paris, and in July of 1971, he demonstrated in Washington to sell their peace proposal – while he was in the Naval Reserve. This variety of amnesia is common among Republicans asked to stand up and testify to Democrat crimes and injustices (see the GOP Senators' "support" of the House impeachment prosecutors).

The Nixon/Ford presidency gave way to Democrat President Jimmy Carter in 1977, which tends to explain the six-year delay in getting the revised discharge. Mr. Lipscomb adds some insight:

"Mr. Carter's first act as president was a general amnesty for draft dodgers and other war protesters. Less than an hour after his inauguration on January 21, 1977, while still in the Capitol building, Mr. Carter signed Executive Order 4483 empowering it. By the time it became a directive from the Defense Department in March 1977 it had been expanded to include other offenders who may have had general, bad conduct, dishonorable discharges, and any other discharge or sentence with negative effect on military records. In those cases the directive outlined a procedure for appeal on a case by case basis before a board of officers. A satisfactory appeal would result in an improvement of discharge status or an honorable discharge."

A document on Kerry's website is a form letter from W. Graham Claytor, Carter's Secretary of the Navy, which grants his Honorable Discharge.

Secretary Claytor's letter says that this action to award an Honorable Discharge Certificate is taken in accordance with Title 10, U.S. Code, Sections 1162 and 1163, which deal with grounds for involuntary separation of a reserve officer and provide for the action of "a board of officers" to examine an officer's records and review previous actions. Obviously, this was the aforementioned board for appeal resulting from President Carter's executive order. Unless Lt. Kerry had previously received an undesirable discharge, he had nothing to appeal and would not have come before this board.

When he became a Senator in 1985, his clout as a senator got his medals back, even though Reagan was president, but the restoration of the medals was one more piece of evidence, as Mr. Lipscomb noted, that Kerry's previous discharge was not honorable.

A man who evidently has been found unfit for military service could become Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. It is time for the facts hidden in his records to be disclosed.

Earl Lively is a former colonel who was assigned as Director of Operations of Headquarters, Texas Air National Guard when George W. Bush was a lieutenant in the Air Guard.

1 posted on 10/30/2004 10:50:51 PM PDT by icecold
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To: icecold; xzins
There may have been some deal to quiet the Swiftees if Kitty Kelley's book was buried. It was and they were. Let's hope Karl Rove is quickly reneging and this story breaks once and for all on Monday.

IMO, this is the reason Kerry went through the charade of "throwing his medals" over the fence. He didn't toss his medals because he didn't have them in his possession. This cover story would then conveniently explain where they were.

That's why he could never give a straight answer to just what it was he tossed away -- "medals, ribbons, four, six, I don't remember..."

America cannot have a Commander in Chief who was kicked out of the military.

94 posted on 10/31/2004 1:45:20 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (John Kerry is a GirlyManchurian Candidate.)
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To: MeekOneGOP

ping!


101 posted on 10/31/2004 1:04:53 AM PST by FBD (John Kerry for President... of Communist Vietnam)
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To: icecold

Still don't understand how almost half the country could be voting for this traitor....another American Civil War may be coming or else we divide the country...not sure what the answer is, but I sure as hell will not live under some distorted form of European Socialism.....This is one of the most dangerous times in our countries history and the media lets on like it's just another election....It's sick!...


103 posted on 10/31/2004 1:14:25 AM PST by Stateline
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To: ImaTexan

ping


106 posted on 10/31/2004 1:20:47 AM PST by bjcintennessee (Don't Sweat the Small Stuff)
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To: icecold

As an insider to some degree, I've looked at this from every angle and this is the only logical explanation I've been able to come up with as well.


114 posted on 10/31/2004 1:52:18 AM PST by NavVet (“Benedict Arnold was wounded in battle fighting for America, but no one remembers him for that.”)
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To: icecold

an important peice about 4 weeks ago...but now? far far too late in the political sense.


120 posted on 10/31/2004 2:31:33 AM PST by Walkingfeather (q)
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To: icecold

bump


121 posted on 10/31/2004 2:35:27 AM PST by Oldeconomybuyer (The democRATS are near the tipping point.)
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To: icecold

The bottom line is that America deserves the truth. If on NOV 03 we have Kerry in the WH. Then All of us need to immediately request the release of all records and investigation of all incidence. If it is determined that there was collusion then we can request Congress initiate impeachment proceedings. Kerry could likely be the first elected POTUS that was impeached days after his election.

Hopefully this is moot by NOV03 and we have a clear winner by a landslide GW Bush.


127 posted on 10/31/2004 4:14:09 AM PST by tomnbeverly (Kerry will bring the Big Dig to Washington in the form of Healthcare becasue thats what liberals do)
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To: icecold

Why has the RNC ignored this topic? Anyone? Please.


128 posted on 10/31/2004 4:16:59 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: icecold

THANKS.

Sent to my email list.


131 posted on 10/31/2004 5:17:26 AM PST by Quix (PRAY! ENERGIZE CONSERVATIVE VOTERS! CHALLENGE REASONABLE LIBERALS W FACTS!)
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To: icecold; All

I THINK

we would all do The Republic a great service to bombard FOX and . . . ABC with this news and earnestly 'demand' that they investigate with all the speed and force they can muster.


133 posted on 10/31/2004 5:33:01 AM PST by Quix (PRAY! ENERGIZE CONSERVATIVE VOTERS! CHALLENGE REASONABLE LIBERALS W FACTS!)
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To: icecold; All

MEDIA EMAILS SENT AS WELL AS TO MY EMAIL LIST.

I also suggest that any chances of getting into any SKERRY town hall meetings or even with poster signs on travel routes--this should be screamed out as loudly and vividly and broadly as possible the next 48 hours.

But even more, we must pray.

Pray that SKERRY'S evil heart; his duplicities in abundance will be vividly exposed.

Pray that Bush will find favor with ALL the undecideds and at least 10% of the PLAN-TO SKERRY VOTERS.

Blessings,


134 posted on 10/31/2004 6:10:13 AM PST by Quix (PRAY! ENERGIZE CONSERVATIVE VOTERS! CHALLENGE REASONABLE LIBERALS W FACTS!)
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To: All

Thank God for people who care so much to get to the truth and to get it out to those who want to know the truth.

http://www.cafepress.com/BelieveSwiftVet


151 posted on 10/31/2004 10:57:28 AM PST by koomy (http://www.cafepress.com/BelieveSwiftVet)
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To: icecold

Well, there you have it! Now just try to get it out to the general public. Where is FOX NEWS on this one?


163 posted on 10/31/2004 2:19:37 PM PST by fightu4it (conquest by immigration and subversion spells the end of US.)
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To: icecold
Kerry discharge threads since 8/23:

Consolidated links to the articles about Kerry's NON-HONORABLE discharge

Kerry Dishonorable Discharge, Part II

Kerry's Dishonorable Discharge, Part II

KERRY'S NON-HONORABLE DISCHARGE

Kerry's non-honorable discharge Exclusive: Earl Lively makes solid case

What We Don't Say for the Sake of Civility (KERRY'S "OTHER THAN HONORABLE DISCHARGE")

10/31 WND Exclusive:Former Colonel 'Kerry's non-honorable discharge?'

Regarding questions surrounding Kerry's discharge...

Regarding the questions surrounding Kerry's Discharge - we had a thought tonight...

Sedona, Arizona FReepers --- help break the KERRY "less than honorable discharge" story

KERRY DISCHARGE - THE JIMMY CARTER LEGACY CONTINUES

Swiftvets - Kerry answers dishorable discharge in 71 interview - weird

Kerry's Less than Honorable Discharge Proven!

Kerry gets less than honorable discharge

1971 Interview with Kerry...sounds like he is talking about discharge. What your Opin?

October Surprise? The Truth Behind Kerry's Military Discharge. What's Kerry Hiding?:

THEY FOUND THE PERSON WHO GAVE KERRY HIS OTHER THAN HONORABLE DISCHARGE!! (Swiftboat Vets)

Kerry's DIShonorable Discharge

Buzz Patterson: October Surprise? The Truth Behind Kerry's Military Discharge. What's Kerry Hiding?:

Kerry's Dishonorable Discharge

Was Kerry dishonorably discharged?

Spreading the Word, Kerry's Hanoi Connection & Dishonorable Discharge {vanity}

Did Kerry get discharge upgraded via Ford

Question about Kerry's Supposed Dishonorable Discharge

More On Kerry's Discharge

Kerry's less than honourable discharge

About Kerry's Discharge

Getting the message out - Kerry Dishonorable Discharge

Kerry Discharge - Honorable or ?????

Kerry's Dishonorable Discharge

Kerry's Dishonorable Discharge

Kerry's Dishonorable Discharge...

John Kerry's Dis-Honorable Discharge?

Why are we not pushing Kerry's less than honorable discharge?

John Kerry less than honorable discharge?

Top GOPers in 'Major Effort' to Uncover Kerry's Naval Discharge

Kerry Discharge Deception

Kerry Military Discharge Deception

Top GOPers in 'Major Effort' to Uncover Kerry's Naval Discharge

Kerrys Mystery Discharge

JOHN KERRY'S DISCHARGE - MALZBERG INTERVIEWS LIPSCOMB

Everyone is Touting Factcheck.org..Freep them to check Kerry's Discharge!!

Malzberg interviews Thomas Lipscomb on Kerry Discharge: Coming up at 10 am ET

Mystery Surrounds Kerry's (Dishonorable ?) Navy Discharge

Kerry Discharge Story May Have Legs

Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge

Republicans(Pundits)on TV/Radio don't ask about KERRY's Reserve Discharge?(Are they cowards?)

KERRY'S DISCHARGE MYSTERY: Steve Malzberg to Interview THOMAS LIPSCOMB

Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge

WABC's Steve Malzberg Reporting Kerry's Questionable Discharge Right Now

Law Cited on Kerry's 1978 Discharge [And Analysis]

Swiftvets and Kerry's discharge

Kerry's Discharge Papers - partially blacked out

Was Kerry's Original Discharge LessTthan Honorable? ( A lawyer offers some insight)

Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge

Proof of Kerry's Less Than Honorable Discharge

Kerry's Discharge

Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge

Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge - required review by board of officers

Mystery Surrounds Kerry's Navy Discharge

... did Kerry receive a less than honorable discharge in 1978 and find ... upgraded in 2001?

Wasn't a Report Due Today about Kerry's Military Discharge?

Why Didn't Kerry Get an Honorable Discharge Until 2001?

John Kerry's Discharge

Seditious Behavior (What kind of discharge did John F Kerry get? Inquiring minds want to know)

Letter from ACU -- Senator Kerry: Execute Your DD 180: Release Your Discharge Papers

John Kerry – Less than Honorably Discharged?

Let's Put this Urban Legend to Rest (Kerry's Discharge)

John Kerry not awarded Honorable Discharge until March 2001

J KERRY'S DISCHARGE

John Kerry - Less than Honorably Discharged?

YOO-HOO DAN RATHER! Is a clinton discharge upgrade "pardon" behind kerry refusal to sign form 180?

Kerry not Honorably Discharged?

Can someone tell me about the "Kerry Honorably Discharged in 2001" story??

Kerry Honorably Discharged from Senate

Is this true? (Kerry's discharge)

Kerry - Bad Conduct Discharge, 1970, Maybe, 1971?

Kerry Deceives News Media About His Navy Discharge on JohnKerry.com

What DELAYED Kerry's Discharge for Six Years?

Kerry - Discharged "Under Other Than Honorable Conditions?"

Interesting observations on the timing of John Kerry's honorable discharge.


166 posted on 10/31/2004 2:54:39 PM PST by delacoert (imperat animus corpori, et paretur statim: imperat animus sibi, et resistitur. -AUGUSTINI)
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To: icecold

While evidence seems to support that Kerry received a dishonorable discharge I'm suprised there aren't boatloads of eyewitnesses coming forward stating their personal knowledge this was the case. A person doesn't receive a dishonorable discharge with hardly anyone knowing about it.


168 posted on 10/31/2004 7:32:23 PM PST by plain talk
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To: icecold

Detailed analysis of Kerry discharge now online at

http://www.vetsforbush.net/kerry-oth-discharge.pdf


171 posted on 11/01/2004 1:14:08 AM PST by mindwest
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