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Note from Travis McGee: I receive this six page "Inside News" industry newsletter, put out by the Firearms Marketing Group, an organization which publishes a lot of glossy gun magazines. I haven't heard of laser etching bullets before, and thought it might be of interest to the RKBA crowd here. Sounds great for catching crooks, but what are the downside risks to our gun rights?
1 posted on 10/29/2004 9:29:53 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
First, the demand for 'off' calibers will increase.

Tagged ammo will be more expensive than the same non-tagged ammo is now.

Demand for pre-tag ammo will go up.

Taxes will be imposed on the ammo to maintain the ammo registry.

No one will want to buy ammo, because it will 'register' their caliber, if not the firearm(s), by providing a database of ammo purchasers.

Of course, the first follow-up laws will ban straw purchases of ammo, or require the reseller to maintain records in perpetuity.

Deformed, distorted or damaged tags may lead to wrongful convictions, there is no guarantee that numerical or alphanumeric tags will not be damaged in handling, firing, impact, or recovery.

Stolen ammo may be tracked back to an innocent person.

Only by maintaining meticulous records of every round or component will anyone have a prayer of 'proving' their innocence.

Tags which are not in plain view (i.e. on the base of the bullet, which would be most likely to survive least deformed) may not correspond with the number on the package, and render the system worse than useless, but lead to wrongful convictions.

My fingers are getting tired, but that should be a good start.

33 posted on 10/29/2004 10:42:09 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (I'm from North Dakota and I'm all FOR Global Warming! Bring it ON!)
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To: Travis McGee
The National Shooting Sports Foundation keeps track of the number of rounds producted each year. Trust me, it is billions. Serial number each one and record the purchaser?

.

35 posted on 10/29/2004 10:44:11 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: Travis McGee

Etching ammunition is akin to the "Ballistic Fingerprinting" that Marylanders have to endure. It sounds all warm and fuzzy, but it's a useless, though expensive waste of time.

Ammunition is easily available over the Net. From gun dealers' sites in other states and countries. Delivered by UPS.

Evidently, someone only half-thought this through. Like the morons who came up with "Ballistic Fingerprinting" in Maryland. Where the State Police keep a round fired from a new or old pistol before you buy it.

Unaware that you can also order new barrels for any automatic pistol. Again, over the Net.

Take the original barrel out. Slip in a new one. And you've defeated "Ballistic Fingerprinting".

Laser Etching is just another invasion of the buyer's privacy. And another slow erosion of the 2nd Amendment!

Jack.


37 posted on 10/29/2004 10:48:37 PM PDT by Jack Deth (When In Doubt.... Empty The Magazine!)
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To: Travis McGee
I use a velcro strapped bag to catch my brass. How would laser etching do a damn thing should I go on a shooting spree?

There should be an IQ test for being able to purpose legislation...

38 posted on 10/29/2004 10:53:24 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (My days of taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle)
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To: Travis McGee

Not surprising. These guys will never give up. If the legislature proposes such legislation, it will surely pass. However, since Arnold vetoed the ammunition registration bill (ammo buyers had to give up thumbprint, DOB, address), he would most likely veto this one. But, rust never sleeps. This stuff just keeps coming back until they get it through.


41 posted on 10/29/2004 11:02:04 PM PDT by .38sw
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To: Travis McGee
but what are the downside risks to our gun rights?

Same downside as using a serial number to track a weapon...except worse...all a criminal would have to do is recover your spent bullets from a berm or trap and use them in a crime...too many ways to incriminate the innocent.

In order for the ammunition to be tracked it would have to be purchased through legal channels...and people that purchase ammunition through legal channels would hardly used it for a crime...at least anyone with half a brain...crimes of passion excluded.

There's a big dependency on the criminal for the etching to work...and the article spells it out..."These are the same people who won't even bother to put a glove on when they're committing a crime."

Me thinks this is another boondogle perpetrated by the inventors of the technology..force it to be required by law so they benefit... Find out who Seattle-based Ravensforge Inc. has contributed to and it's more than likely the same person that is pushing the adgenda...

42 posted on 10/29/2004 11:15:33 PM PDT by in the Arena (James Wayne Herrick, Jr. Captain/US Air Force - MIA - Laos - 27 October 1969)
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To: Travis McGee

Why the leftist RATs fear the 2nd; WWII Vets clean up vote fraud in Athens TN. 1946
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1261101/posts


47 posted on 10/29/2004 11:28:37 PM PDT by quietolong
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To: Travis McGee

Um, register your bullets? Register your caps and casings?


52 posted on 10/29/2004 11:36:58 PM PDT by ApesForEvolution (You will NEVER convince me that Muhammadanism isn't a veil for MASS MURDERS. Save your time...)
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To: Travis McGee

What happens if you walk into walmart, get two boxes of ammo, switch the insides, and put one box back? I suppose they'd still have a short list of suspects, but overall I don't see how this would be all that effective.

patent


53 posted on 10/29/2004 11:38:25 PM PDT by patent (A baby is God's opinion that life should go on. Carl Sandburg)
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To: Travis McGee

Load your own.


54 posted on 10/29/2004 11:39:52 PM PDT by Jeff Head (www.dragonsfuryseries.com)
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To: Travis McGee

it never ends.

one day when we finish with the raggers, we will have work to do here.


67 posted on 10/30/2004 12:10:59 AM PDT by wardaddy (The only thing we share with collectivists and ragheads is death.)
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To: Travis McGee

Hey this is a great idea for custom messages on bullets. I'll take a box of .308 with Osama's name on 'em.


78 posted on 10/30/2004 3:23:57 AM PDT by etcetera (Not our power, but our will, is the target.)
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To: AAABEST; wku man; SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; The Old Hoosier; xrp; freedomlover; ...
The statists never tire, do they?

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

79 posted on 10/30/2004 6:22:21 AM PDT by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism.)
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To: Travis McGee

I want my ammo numbered sequentially, so I can hand it over one at a time in an orderly fashion. :)


83 posted on 10/30/2004 6:32:09 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (I want to have fanatical henchmen when I grow up.)
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To: Travis McGee
Thanks for the ping.

This would totally eviscerate the 2nd amendment, and is wrong for many reasons (violates 2nd, presumption of guilt, perverted view of relationship between people and gov't, etc....)

It would be a total nightmare if it passes.

Eventually, it would lead to having to go through an FFL to buy ammo. Private sales would be banned, and "pre-ban" ammo transfers would be illegal.

85 posted on 10/30/2004 6:34:14 AM PDT by Mulder ("The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere and any time"-- Heinlein)
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To: Travis McGee

If they can account for the ammo as it is sold and bind it to an individual, which they would, then they can selectively ask that it be returned. For example, if they ban a class of ammo ("armor piercing"), they can say you must turn it in. Then if they subsequently find spent ammo, you are toast. Also any such plan would require legislation to prohibit off the record, interpersonal transfers.

GIVE THEM NOTHING, not one inch!


91 posted on 10/30/2004 6:59:20 AM PDT by Liberty Ship ("Lord, make me fast and accurate.")
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To: Travis McGee

In an effort to defeat this and add confusion and render this impotent, we just start a trading network. Once the ammo has changed hands ten to twelve times the authorities will have wasted so much time in the investigation...


92 posted on 10/30/2004 6:59:28 AM PDT by CAfraudPI
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To: Travis McGee
Thanks for posting this TMcGee! If I was in California I'd be real nervous about this. Sounds just like the kind of "sexy", hi-tech gun-control law that Ahnold would love to sign.

BLOATS, BLOATS, BLOATS, before this piece of tyrannical crap becomes law.

94 posted on 10/30/2004 7:38:08 AM PDT by Hat-Trick (Do you trust a government that cannot trust you with guns?)
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To: Travis McGee

First, let them test it with the cops. Every gun owned, possessed or carried by every cop in CA must have this code, and be fully registered (10 years for violations.)

Let's let that run for a while, and have random pat-down audits of cops to make sure thet they haven't forgotten any "throw-down" guns.

Let me know how that works out.


95 posted on 10/30/2004 7:38:58 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: Travis McGee

if you can't eliminate something, you can still tax it. coming soon: ammo with id chips.


104 posted on 10/30/2004 8:37:00 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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