Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Who Designed This Ballot? (Ohio ballot has Bush incorrectly aligned with arrow) [fraud!]
Power Line ^ | 10/24/04 | Hindrocket

Posted on 10/24/2004 11:25:59 AM PDT by Cableguy

More trouble brewing in Ohio: Reader Evan Rogers sent us this absentee ballot from Cuyahoga County (Cleveland).

Looking at the ballot, one would assume that to vote for President Bush, you'd punch out the green square opposite the arrow. Nope. The right square for Bush is the red one, number four, near the top of the column. That corresponds, I guess, to the number 4 next to the arrow, and I assume that voters are instructed in what those numbers mean. What makes it unreasonable is that to vote for John Kerry, you punch square six, the blue one, which is just opposite Kerry's arrow. So Bush voters are likely to be confused; Kerry voters won't be.

There are probably dozens, if not hundreds, of such sources of confusion in various districts around the country. Depending on the election's outcome, any of them could be grounds for post-election lawsuits.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: cuyahogacounty; dirtytricks; rats; votefraud; voterfraud
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-120 next last
To: Cableguy

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/008287.php

UPDATE: We've gotten quite a bit of mail about this. The original source of the photo is a site called Electoral-Vote.com. A reader forwarded it to us.

One reader says that the directions on the ballot make it even more confusing. Mike Wise, however, thinks the confusion is misplaced:

The candidate/issues info booklet (shown on the left in your picture) is shipped completely separately from the punchcard ballot shown on the right. They do not arrive as shown on your website or attached in any way, and I can't fathom why anyone would line the ballot and the booklet up the way it is shown in order to vote. The instructions given are to punch out the right NUMBER, not try to line them up. Given how much the numbering jumps around all over the ballot, it would be a huge hassle to try to line it up like that. It _is_ confusing the way you show it, but I can't think why anyone would set it up like that to vote...

Posted by Hindrocket at 12:28 PM | TrackBack (9)



Hope this helps.


41 posted on 10/24/2004 12:13:26 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ScottFromSpokane; All
looks like a photoshop...

Nope. Montgomery County, Ohio's are identical.

42 posted on 10/24/2004 12:15:12 PM PDT by Gerasimov (http://www.totels.com/bush04)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: John Lenin; Cableguy

You don't understand that the ballot and the punch card are two separate pieces of paper. The person taking the picture didn't "move up" the punch card two notches, or any notches. There are no "notches." All he or she did, apparently, is do his or her best to line up the arrows against the chad numbers.

Can you explain why the order of candidates on the printed ballot would differ from the order of candidates on the punch card?


43 posted on 10/24/2004 12:17:45 PM PDT by doc_frank
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: raynearhood
If the situation were reversed the Dims would insist that EITHER a 4 or 14 selection should go to their candidate.

Will the Pubbies have the b@lls to do the same?

44 posted on 10/24/2004 12:20:07 PM PDT by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Cableguy

I removed your reply in #40. The Mercury News must be posted as an excerpt only.
Thanks.


45 posted on 10/24/2004 12:21:08 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Cableguy

This was on before and I noted that the Cleveland Plain Dealer had an aricle with someone from the Board of Elections. They said that the arrows were a problem but that any one who thinks they may have voted wrong can get another ballot. Their first ballot would then be cancelled. They gave the phone number to call.
I couldn't find the absentee ballot sample at the Board of Election's website. But the sample of the regular ballot has no arrows or numbers and the candidates are listed in a different order.


46 posted on 10/24/2004 12:21:14 PM PDT by unbalanced but fair
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cableguy; All

It would help if we knew which city, ward, and precinct this ballot is for. Each is different. I conducted a random sampling of ballots on the Cuyahoga County web site and found that most had Bush/Cheney listed first. I did find one ballot that matched this one: for Cleveland, Ward 4, Precinct F (4-F). The ballot shown on the website did not have the numbers and arrows on it.

Having worked with this type of voting system before, I can say that you can't tell whether fraud has been attempted just by looking at the sample ballot. Each candidate's position is determined before the ballots are printed up and assigned in the software that drives the card counters. In order for position 4 to be counted as a Bush/Cheney vote, position 4 would have to have been assigned within the software AND the chad punched out on the card.

As far as I can tell just by the graphic provided, it appears to me that position 14 has been assigned Bush/Cheney and would line up with the arrow and the hole once the punch card was inserted into the voting table. However, as we do not know the origin of the graphic provided, we cannot determine how original/authentic it is. Since the samples provided on the website are in PDF format AND unprotected (no Acrobat security turned on), they are easy to capture and manipulate on a computer. It took me less than a minute to capture the same area on the ballot and paste it in Photoshop. From there, it is a no brainer to add whatever you want to it, or to erase something that is there and replace it with something else.

This graphic proves nothing by itself.


47 posted on 10/24/2004 12:22:45 PM PDT by ShakeNJake
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cableguy

Be this a valid photo, or not, if one is too stupid to read AND comprehend the instructions that clearly tell you to punch by the number, then you have no business voting in the first place.l


48 posted on 10/24/2004 12:23:53 PM PDT by Neets (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: unbalanced but fair

Thanks for the update. I was getting paranoid about potential fraud. It looks like whoever put the arrows clearly messed up and confused people. At least people are on top of this potential problem.


49 posted on 10/24/2004 12:24:09 PM PDT by Cableguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Cableguy

Not only this ballot is confusing but I am sure you have heard of how different states handle voting differently, i.e., some are using computer-based voting machines while others are using the lever-type machines - point being, there is even no consistency across the country as to how voting will be conducted.


50 posted on 10/24/2004 12:26:41 PM PDT by RunnerMom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cableguy

Another AP article:

* Absentee voters in the state's most populous county are complaining about a ballot layout that they say might prompt some people to choose the wrong candidate, or none at all. The elections board in traditionally Democratic Cuyahoga County has fielded numerous calls from voters confused about the layout.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/10/20/politics1757EDT0729.DTL


51 posted on 10/24/2004 12:28:04 PM PDT by Cableguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: Cableguy
Looks photshopped to me. http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/boe/ballots/ballots.htm
52 posted on 10/24/2004 12:29:40 PM PDT by evets (God bless president George W. Bush)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ShakeNJake

I voted absentee in Ohio also. You don't have to line up the ballot with the book. You just poke the corresponding hole. It's not hard. If you want to vote for GW, in this case you punch 4.


53 posted on 10/24/2004 12:29:57 PM PDT by twpcatalyst
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: evets

I just did an article search, and there are lots of AP and other ones outlining the problem. So whether the photo is real or not, the problem exists. See my posts above.


54 posted on 10/24/2004 12:31:19 PM PDT by Cableguy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: ShakeNJake; All

What happens if 14 is assigned to Bush, but the number 4 shows up on the printed ballot. Then you punch out 4, not 14. And when voting in person, remember that after the punch card is inserted into the slot, you don't see the numbers on the actual punch card. Nonetheless, you count down four holes from the top and punch that chad rather than the chad opposite the Bush name. How is that vote counted?


55 posted on 10/24/2004 12:31:27 PM PDT by doc_frank
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Cableguy

Here's a Cleveland Plain Dealer article on the subject:

Local ballot is confusing for some absentee voters

Thursday, October 21, 2004
Kaye Spector
Plain Dealer Reporter

On absentee ballots, it's the numbers - not arrows - that count.

The Cuyahoga County Board of Elections has heard complaints from voters who were tripped up by the booklet that accompanied their absentee ballots. The voters mistakenly thought they should insert the ballot into the booklet, just like at the polling place, then punch out the chad across from the candidate's name.

No, no, no, said Gwen Dillingham, the election board's deputy director. Absentee voters should find the candidate's assigned number next to the name on the booklet, then punch out the corresponding chad on the ballot.

"You don't line them up with an absentee ballot," Dillingham said. "You look for numbers."

The ballots and booklets are used for both absentee voters and the voters at polling booths on Election Day. Complete instructions for absentee voters on how to properly use the ballot are printed on the booklet's cover, Dillingham said.

"We get these calls every year, but if they read the instructions on the front of the book, it's very clear," she said.

Those who voted absentee and think they may have made a mistake can contact the election board's absentee ballot department at 216-443-3231. The board will send out another ballot and cancel the first one. Ohio law gives voters three chances to get it right.

Election officials around the state expect a sharp increase in absentee ballots this year, thanks to heightened interest in the presidential race and the aggressive efforts of political parties and advocacy groups.

In Cuyahoga County, Ohio's most populous county, 75,000 voters have requested absentee ballots so far, Dillingham said.



56 posted on 10/24/2004 12:31:44 PM PDT by Gorilla44
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ShakeNJake

I voted absentee in Ohio also. You don't have to line up the ballot with the book. You just poke the corresponding hole. It's not hard. If you want to vote for GW, in this case you punch 4.


57 posted on 10/24/2004 12:32:08 PM PDT by twpcatalyst
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: buffyt
How did they decide to Put Kerry FIRST and Bush LAST? Often undecided people vote for the FIRST candidate on a list.

No specifics but the candidates are often rotated on the ballots so each appears first an equal number of times.

58 posted on 10/24/2004 12:34:48 PM PDT by WildTurkey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Cableguy

Here is a fun ballot at http://wearabledissent.com/101/floridavote.html


59 posted on 10/24/2004 12:35:03 PM PDT by jws3sticks (Hillary can take a very long walk on a very short pier, anytime, and the sooner the better!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cableguy

These ballots should be hand counted and voters asked to circle the name of the candidate of their choice if the elections commission will not do this the GOP needs to station people at all the polls, directing voters to do so.


60 posted on 10/24/2004 12:36:06 PM PDT by Eva
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-120 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson