Posted on 10/22/2004 3:46:41 AM PDT by ninonitti
The sequence of events that led to the death of an Emerson College student began when a half-dozen officers on horseback were surrounded by rioting Red Sox fans on Lansdowne Street about 1:30 a.m. yesterday, witnesses said.
By the time armor-clad cops dispersed the crowd of some 3,000 in the shadow of Fenway Park's Green Monster, Victoria Snelgrove, 21, lay fatally injured. She had been struck in the eye by one of a number of pepper balls fired by police to quell unruly fans throwing bottles and bricks.
``The cops (on horseback) pushed in and the people closed in behind them,'' said Emerson student Brett Schweinberg, 18, who was struck by two pepper projectiles fired by police while trying to scale the Green Monster.
``They were surrounded by people and a bottle landed near a horse and it spooked it. It faltered and it got jittery and 30 to 40 seconds later, cops turned around and fired at a group of people about 20 feet to my left. People scattered except for one girl who was bleeding from the nose and mouth.''
A Herald reporter in the midst of the crowd saw revelry turn to mob mentality. Several people tried to scale the Green Monster, at least one of whom plummeted to the ground after being shot by a projectile.
Small fires burned, street signs were torn down and trash barrels were tossed about as police struggled to control the increasingly hostile crowd. Several cars became trapped by walls of people while drivers spun their tires and blared stereos - some with people riding on the roof. Several bottles were thrown, one of which reportedly struck a police officer, breaking his nose.
Theshot that killed Snelgrove followed a standoff between a cop on horseback and a young man wearing a gray knit hat. Standing by a bustling sausage cart, the man refused the officer's orders to move, prompting the officer to reach down and toss him to the ground. After getting up, the man hurled profanities at the cop and made several obscene gestures.
More bottles were thrown as at least one riot cop fired projectiles into the crowd, one of which apparently struck Snelgrove. She immediately fell to the ground while her friends tended to her, rubbing her head as blood streamed from her face. Horrified onlookers shouted ``get an ambulance'' as the girl drifted in and out of consciousness. One of the riot cops checked on the girl briefly. Approximately five minutes after she collapsed, mounted police cleared a path for an ambulance and the girl was taken away.
As cops cleared the crowd, one young man who had been standing near Snelgrove shouted at police, ``Are you happy? Murderers!''
One officer was stunned at the ferocity of the violence. ``I saw the horses surrounded,'' he said. ``It was like a vacuum. They got sucked in. I saw guys holding small trees they had pulled out of the ground like warriors. They were holding steel sign posts they had bent over and broken. We had to fight to get control.''
Exactly
That is just a silly statement. If she was there and participating in the riot by choice, that's one thing, but I saw nothing in the article to indicate she was involved.
Sure, it is always the best thing when you see something like this happening to get the heck out ASAP, but in a pressing crowd, it isn't always possible. A large crowd can trun ugly very quickly. I have been in a similar situation, inadvertently I might add, and an ambulance wasn't even able to break through the mob. It took a long time to extract ourselves from the midst of the chaos and we had children with us. I guarantee you that if my child had been shot by a cop trying to break up an unruly crowd, unintentianally or not, I'd have had his job and his bank account.
Did you mean to be funny? I sometimes have trouble catching the sarcasm on this board. If not, please do not take this as a personal insult, but your comment is very funny. It’s akin to saying, “You do not know much about the bench press, do you. Neither has this Arnold Schwarzenegger.”
Wow. 30,000 rioters killed.
You are right. What we should do is declare a 24 hour period of rioting after major sports victories so that the fans can get it out of their system by destroying the city.
They never learn. And they wonder how the 'sheeple' believe the Kerry lies ... Go figure.
To bad the Federal government doesn't treat the epic invasion of our country as serious as they do unruly crowds of citizens celebrating sporting events.
I do too.
But first I think some people have to get a handle on what a riot is. We've had riots in this country -think after MLK's death in the 60's or the Rodney King verdict in the 90's and then we have things like this which are more like a brawls.
I still maintain that the cops could've cracked heads and dispersed the crowds without busting a cap-albeit a "non-lethal" one- in this kid.
Some morons just can't handle losing OR winning. Win or lose, property must be destroyed; someone has to die.
But, this is a sports thread. What are YOU doing here? ;O)
"Yes it is. The cops were surrounded by people who were beginning an honest-to-goodness riot. Do you suggest that the cops should have read 19th century French poetry to calm the crowd?"
First, it was not a riot. A mob perhaps, but not a riot. It was rowdy dunk college kids acting like fools. These were not professional anti-social protesters. Big difference
Second, what I would expect is that a professional police force would block streets off prior to the end of the game, and line cops up outside the Fenway bars so that when the kids flew out of the bars it would be impossible for them to overtake the streets or get out of control. The cops job is to maintain control, which they failed to do. But even if they were going to resort to using pepper spray guns, I would expect them to use them properly. They are not meant to be fired in a point blank fashion as the cops did.
I'm all for keeping order, but I do expect professionalism out of the police as the NYPD demonstrated on 9/11.
I always try to avoid riots, and make sure that I am no where in the vacinity of the riots. Especially around criminal activity- which is the entire riot. Poor girl was a part of an illegal activity. Poor girl made a poor choice to be a part of a riot. Sad choices lead to tragic results. I would have left.
The rules for use of this particular type of "non-lethal weapon" must be re-evaluated. It is still a useful "non-lethal weapon" but only in certain well defined situations.
It's "non-lethal" use is now applicable only when it is used to deliver body blows to the torso while contact with the head is clearly seen to be potentially fatal.
As such, it needs to be reserved for stand-off situations where is single individual is holding off police with a knife or other potentially lethal short range weapon. In such situations, the police must be able to target the perp's torso and nothing else.
In crowd control situations or in situation's when a perp is running through innocent bystanders, it's use is no can longer be thought of as "non-lethal".
"No, dumb libs like you are to blame. There's a term for it: enabler. Crowds are not supposed to behave this way and you should be happy that more orcs didn't perish in their chaotic and destructive "celebration"."
Sorry. You can call me anything you like, but lib just doesn't fit me. Its rather laughable if you take a look at all my other comments on other topics. I assure you my educational and conservative credentials are a lot thicker than yours.
What you don't seem to grasp is that the police had prior knowledge the mob would form. The police did little to prepare for it. In my conservative world, I'd fire an employee that didn't properly prepare. I'd make them take responsibility for there screw up. So, I'm not sure why you want to give the police a pass here. This was not some random riot. The police did not plan.
I neither give the crowd a pass, nor do I condone their behavior. But, again, it's up to the police to preserve order. If the police were prepared they would have had enough man power out there to prevent crowds spilling into the streets in the first place. It seems to me you are the enabler here of poor police work.
Gosh. So it's only a riot if done by trained professionals? I'd think that things burning, signs and trees being pulled down for weapons, and such would be enough for you to conclude that bad things were starting to happen. Apparently not.
The fact that it did not become a full-fledged riot is due, in large part, to the fact that the cops applied force when they did. The girl died in a freak accident -- but the judicious use of force by the cops did what it was supposed to do.
RIOT
2 a : public violence, tumult, or disorder b : a violent public disorder; specifically : a tumultuous disturbance of the public peace by three or more persons assembled together and acting with a common intent.
Perhaps it was a ruckus?
General rule of thumb, stay away from drunks who are tearing up private property, especially beat feet once the cops arrive.
This should clear up the defenition of riot for you.
As for the loss of an innocent, what goes around comes around. I am quite positive the Cops had no intention of killing anyone. Sounds to me like they had no choice. What exactly do you mean by a plan? The plan was to disperse these people and send them home. If they had done that, there would have been no loss.
You sure you're not a Troll from DU? These people have no defense. Why are you trying to give them one?
It was a freak accident, nothing more.
"but the judicious use of force by the cops did what it was supposed to do."
So shooting an innocent in the face after coming out of a bar and get stuck in a crowd is "judicious" use of force? Would you feel the same if that was your kid or niece, or sister, or friend that got shot? If you were familiar
If you read the witness and press reports, the girl that got shot was not even in the area where the incidents you speak of occurred. What happened was that someone threw a bottle near a cop and the cop shot before he could think. Not what I expect out of a professional. Seems like a rookie move. We will seek what the police investigation reveals.
But I tell you what. Take a look at the picture here http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/10/21/in_victory_fan_anxiety_turns_to_delirium?pg=2 and tell me which one of these goofballs the police should shoot next. They look like quite a threat to cops in riot gear.
You're not rational.
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