Cops’ pepper shot kills student

Boston Herald ^ | Friday, October 22, 2004 | By Tom Farmer and Dave Wedge

[1Old Pro]

Lesson: when you see cops move in on a crowd...leave. Bad things generally happen when you are somewhere you don't belong, or when you're doing something you shouldn't be doing.

Exactly

[sweetliberty]

"The girl shouldn't have been in the middle of a riot. No one is to blame but her."

That is just a silly statement. If she was there and participating in the riot by choice, that's one thing, but I saw nothing in the article to indicate she was involved.

Sure, it is always the best thing when you see something like this happening to get the heck out ASAP, but in a pressing crowd, it isn't always possible. A large crowd can trun ugly very quickly. I have been in a similar situation, inadvertently I might add, and an ambulance wasn't even able to break through the mob. It took a long time to extract ourselves from the midst of the chaos and we had children with us. I guarantee you that if my child had been shot by a cop trying to break up an unruly crowd, unintentianally or not, I'd have had his job and his bank account.

[Stat-boy]

You've never owned a .22 have you? Neither has this Jeff Cooper apparently.

Did you mean to be funny? I sometimes have trouble catching the sarcasm on this board. If not, please do not take this as a personal insult, but your comment is very funny. It’s akin to saying, “You do not know much about the bench press, do you. Neither has this Arnold Schwarzenegger.”

[Chemist_Geek]

We still have a ways to go before we rival Byzantium's Blue and Green riots.

Wow. 30,000 rioters killed.

Nika riots

[WildTurkey]

I guess it's open season on young women....what kind of maroons are wielding these "non-lethal" weapons?

You are right. What we should do is declare a 24 hour period of rioting after major sports victories so that the fans can get it out of their system by destroying the city.

[WildTurkey]

Assigning blame based on reading this one short news article is like taking a Rorschach test. Long-time FReepers ought to have learned by now to avoid passing rash judgments after MSM first reports.

They never learn. And they wonder how the 'sheeple' believe the Kerry lies ... Go figure.

[Joe Hadenuf]

To bad the Federal government doesn't treat the epic invasion of our country as serious as they do unruly crowds of citizens celebrating sporting events.

[ninonitti]

Gee, I wonder if we will have rioting when Bush wins?

I do too.

But first I think some people have to get a handle on what a riot is. We've had riots in this country -think after MLK's death in the 60's or the Rodney King verdict in the 90's and then we have things like this which are more like a brawls.

I still maintain that the cops could've cracked heads and dispersed the crowds without busting a cap-albeit a "non-lethal" one- in this kid.

[newgeezer]

Strangely, I didn't hear about anything like this happening in St. Louis overnight.

Some morons just can't handle losing OR winning. Win or lose, property must be destroyed; someone has to die.

But, this is a sports thread. What are YOU doing here? ;O)

[The Hound Passer]

"Yes it is. The cops were surrounded by people who were beginning an honest-to-goodness riot. Do you suggest that the cops should have read 19th century French poetry to calm the crowd?"

First, it was not a riot. A mob perhaps, but not a riot. It was rowdy dunk college kids acting like fools. These were not professional anti-social protesters. Big difference

Second, what I would expect is that a professional police force would block streets off prior to the end of the game, and line cops up outside the Fenway bars so that when the kids flew out of the bars it would be impossible for them to overtake the streets or get out of control. The cops job is to maintain control, which they failed to do. But even if they were going to resort to using pepper spray guns, I would expect them to use them properly. They are not meant to be fired in a point blank fashion as the cops did.

I'm all for keeping order, but I do expect professionalism out of the police as the NYPD demonstrated on 9/11.

[Porterville]

I always try to avoid riots, and make sure that I am no where in the vacinity of the riots. Especially around criminal activity- which is the entire riot. Poor girl was a part of an illegal activity. Poor girl made a poor choice to be a part of a riot. Sad choices lead to tragic results. I would have left.

[Polybius]

There is no way "non-lethal" weapons should result in a death. But on the other hand, cops should not have to worry about their safety because a city's team has won a ball game. Is this South American soccer? should result in a death. But on the other hand, cops should not have to worry about their safety because a city's team has won a ball game. Is this South American soccer?

The rules for use of this particular type of "non-lethal weapon" must be re-evaluated. It is still a useful "non-lethal weapon" but only in certain well defined situations.

It's "non-lethal" use is now applicable only when it is used to deliver body blows to the torso while contact with the head is clearly seen to be potentially fatal.

As such, it needs to be reserved for stand-off situations where is single individual is holding off police with a knife or other potentially lethal short range weapon. In such situations, the police must be able to target the perp's torso and nothing else.

In crowd control situations or in situation's when a perp is running through innocent bystanders, it's use is no can longer be thought of as "non-lethal".

[The Hound Passer]

"No, dumb libs like you are to blame. There's a term for it: enabler. Crowds are not supposed to behave this way and you should be happy that more orcs didn't perish in their chaotic and destructive "celebration"."

Sorry. You can call me anything you like, but lib just doesn't fit me. Its rather laughable if you take a look at all my other comments on other topics. I assure you my educational and conservative credentials are a lot thicker than yours.

What you don't seem to grasp is that the police had prior knowledge the mob would form. The police did little to prepare for it. In my conservative world, I'd fire an employee that didn't properly prepare. I'd make them take responsibility for there screw up. So, I'm not sure why you want to give the police a pass here. This was not some random riot. The police did not plan.

I neither give the crowd a pass, nor do I condone their behavior. But, again, it's up to the police to preserve order. If the police were prepared they would have had enough man power out there to prevent crowds spilling into the streets in the first place. It seems to me you are the enabler here of poor police work.

[r9etb]

First, it was not a riot. A mob perhaps, but not a riot. It was rowdy dunk college kids acting like fools. These were not professional anti-social protesters. Big difference

Gosh. So it's only a riot if done by trained professionals? I'd think that things burning, signs and trees being pulled down for weapons, and such would be enough for you to conclude that bad things were starting to happen. Apparently not.

The fact that it did not become a full-fledged riot is due, in large part, to the fact that the cops applied force when they did. The girl died in a freak accident -- but the judicious use of force by the cops did what it was supposed to do.

[Rubber_Duckie_27]

That is just a silly statement. If she was there and participating in the riot by choice, that's one thing, but I saw nothing in the article to indicate she was involved.

From CNN: "She loved the Red Sox. She went in to celebrate with friends" (a quote from her father). Emerson College is not in Boston

Anyone who cares for their personal safety should not be going out to join a mob to celebrate a sports victory. These types of situations always seem to end with arrests and property destruction at the very least, and often end with people getting hurt or killed. As safe as it may seem, they can get very nasty very quickly.

My alma mater is major basketball powerhouse. Sure, it was exciting and fun when they won championships. That doesn't mean I joined the 10,000-person mobs who went around campus setting bonfires and throwing bottles at cops! It's simply foolish to knowingly put yourself in a situation that's likely to get out of control.

[csvset]

From Websters:

RIOT
2 a : public violence, tumult, or disorder b : a violent public disorder; specifically : a tumultuous disturbance of the public peace by three or more persons assembled together and acting with a common intent.

Perhaps it was a ruckus?

General rule of thumb, stay away from drunks who are tearing up private property, especially beat feet once the cops arrive.

[Allosaurs_r_us]

Riot: a disturbance of the peace created by an assemblage of usually three or more people acting with a common purpose and in a violent and tumultuous manner to the terror of the public; also : the crime of rioting

This should clear up the defenition of riot for you.

As for the loss of an innocent, what goes around comes around. I am quite positive the Cops had no intention of killing anyone. Sounds to me like they had no choice. What exactly do you mean by a plan? The plan was to disperse these people and send them home. If they had done that, there would have been no loss.

You sure you're not a Troll from DU? These people have no defense. Why are you trying to give them one?

[RobRoy]

It was a freak accident, nothing more.

[The Hound Passer]

"but the judicious use of force by the cops did what it was supposed to do."

So shooting an innocent in the face after coming out of a bar and get stuck in a crowd is "judicious" use of force? Would you feel the same if that was your kid or niece, or sister, or friend that got shot? If you were familiar

If you read the witness and press reports, the girl that got shot was not even in the area where the incidents you speak of occurred. What happened was that someone threw a bottle near a cop and the cop shot before he could think. Not what I expect out of a professional. Seems like a rookie move. We will seek what the police investigation reveals.

But I tell you what. Take a look at the picture here http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/10/21/in_victory_fan_anxiety_turns_to_delirium?pg=2 and tell me which one of these goofballs the police should shoot next. They look like quite a threat to cops in riot gear.

[r9etb]

You're not rational.