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Body armor firm files bankruptcy
Boston Globe ^ | October 20, 2004 | N/A

Posted on 10/21/2004 10:31:16 AM PDT by Mini-14

CENTRAL LAKE, Mich. -- Second Chance Body Armor Inc. filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy after being hit with lawsuits in Massachusetts and at least nine other states accusing it of selling defective bulletproof vests to police officers.

One lawsuit blames the company -- the nation's largest manufacturer of soft, concealable body armor for law enforcement -- in the shooting death of a California police officer. Another, brought by the state of Utah, led to a $210,000 settlement.

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Unclassified
KEYWORDS: armor; banglist; body; bodyarmor; bullet; guns; proof; vests
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To: Mini-14
Perhaps. I also remember reading that there were credible allegations of abandoning quality control due to huge increases in orders.

But the bottom line for the society as a whole is fewer armored vests. Is that a good choice?

21 posted on 10/21/2004 10:55:27 AM PDT by pierrem15
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To: Shryke

I'm scratching my head on that one also. There may be some jurisdictions in the U.S. where one cannot sue a police department for wrongful death, but I sure ain't aware of any.


22 posted on 10/21/2004 10:55:55 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: joesnuffy
Ground Pounder of the future?
23 posted on 10/21/2004 10:56:26 AM PDT by FatLoser
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To: pierrem15
Another mission-critical business shut down by the trial lawyers.

Am I missing something here? Police Officers trusted their product to protect their lives. Police Officers were lied to. Since when is providing defective merchandise 'mission critical'?

24 posted on 10/21/2004 10:58:14 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: Mini-14

John Edwards and Trial Lawyers need their herd thinned out...


25 posted on 10/21/2004 10:59:26 AM PDT by ApesForEvolution (You will NEVER convince me that Muhammadanism isn't a veil for MASS MURDERS. Save your time...)
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To: coloradan
"You can't sue a police officer who was supposed to keep your relative from being killed but didn't"

Its not really part of the story but since you brought it up...Too bad the perpetrator of the crime can't be held accountable. Your assumption that the Police Department can't be sued is not all correct. Departments and Cities have been sued over this issue and have paid out.
26 posted on 10/21/2004 10:59:52 AM PDT by Dave278 (If J F'n Kerry wins we are all doomed.)
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To: ApesForEvolution

From the Second Chance website:  www.secondchance.com/pdf/Debunking_Toyobo_Spin.pdf

QUESTION - Is Zylon fiber unsafe for use in ballistic applications…?

SCBA – Yes. Because of its high degradation rate Zylon is not a reliable fiber to use in body armor. Its alarming degradation rate has been substantiated by the NIJ in preliminary findings released at the Office of Justice March 11th Summit. Further testing is ongoing. Thus far, the actual mechanism of Zylon fiber degradation has not been scientifically established. We know that heat, moisture and light are a part of the degradation mix. The dilemma for the body armor manufacturer is “How do you design a Zylon fiber/fabric vest if the mechanism for its degradation has not been specifically defined?”

QUESTION – Why do other body armor manufacturers continue to use Zylon?

SCBA – It is true that SCBA is the only company to publicly air its concerns about Zylon degradation and offer a remediation program. It is not true that SCBA is the only company experiencing Zylon problems. On March 11th, at a special Summit convened by Office of Justice and requested last fall by Attorney General John Ashcroft, NIJ officials released preliminary Zylon used vest test findings. They revealed that in testing, 10 of 20 used Zylon vests were penetrated by at least one round. They also stated that these preliminary tests results were consistent with the working theory that there may be degradation occurring in the ballistic performance of used Zylon-based armors, even though the armors tested did not meet the definition of worst case. Also, in February of this year the Prince Georges County Police Department, Maryland, initiated an NIJ certified independent lab test shoot of used Zylon vest models in which an American Body Armor vest failed.

ISSUE – Toyobo alleges that no other body armor manufacturer made claims similar to Second Chance of making the ‘lightest, thinnest vest in the world’.

SCBA – That is not true. Companies in the body armor industry are noted for making claims that their body armor is lighter and thinner than the competition. Whenever a company introduces a model that is lighter or thinner, they advertise it as such. Because SCBA was the first company to introduce Zylon-based body armor to the industry, they advertised it as the lightest and thinnest vest on the market. As competitors began introducing Zylon-based armor, SCBA lost that competitive advantage. Please see the chart below for further details.

27 posted on 10/21/2004 11:00:25 AM PDT by Mini-14
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To: Shryke

Many people think police are responsible (that is, have the legal duty) to protect them. They are wrong. There have been several cases where someone was in fear of her life, she called police, the police *promised* to come, but didn't, and she was killed. Relatives sued, and lost every time. Police have ZERO legal duty to protect anyone in the general public. But here, police are suing a vest maker, becuase somehow the vest maker has a legal duty to do something the police do not, namely, protect someone's life. It seems ironic - or even hypocritical - to me.


28 posted on 10/21/2004 11:01:17 AM PDT by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: Dave278

Please cite some cases, I am not aware of any, and I am aware of several that were ruled the other way.


29 posted on 10/21/2004 11:02:35 AM PDT by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: pierrem15
But the bottom line for the society as a whole is fewer armored vests.

If I have 100,000 vests, 80,000 of which work, am I better off than if I have 80,000 vests, all of which work?

Is that a good choice?

Police officers are putting on armored vests without having to worry if they will actually stop a bullet or not. Is that a good choice?

30 posted on 10/21/2004 11:03:14 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: Mini-14

Soon we'll hear that we cannot supply enough body armor to our troops because the "foreign manufacturer" can't keep up with the demand. Than, it'll be Bush's fault!


31 posted on 10/21/2004 11:03:25 AM PDT by caisson71
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To: coloradan
It seems ironic - or even hypocritical - to me.

Think about it practically then. How many police departments would we have if every litigious ass**** in America could sue them when a crime was committed? Zero.

32 posted on 10/21/2004 11:07:21 AM PDT by Shryke
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To: Non-Sequitur
The point is a small number of vests were adversely affected by unforeseen deterioration of the material, and judging from some of the other posts, the manufacturer acted swiftly to rectify the situation.

Now you get ZERO vests (if they close.

Sort of like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

In addition, I am assuming the officers affected or their families are insured and are receiving some form of compensation for their injuries already, so remind me again where the societal benfit is in these lawsuits.

33 posted on 10/21/2004 11:25:50 AM PDT by pierrem15
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To: Shryke

Cops shouldn't promise something they can't deliver, and they should try just a mite harder at not misrepresenting their responsiblities to the general public. "To serve and protect" goes well into the domain of false and deceptive advertising.


34 posted on 10/21/2004 12:18:37 PM PDT by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: coloradan
Cops shouldn't promise something they can't deliver, and they should try just a mite harder at not misrepresenting their responsiblities to the general public.

It's an oath they take, not a legal contract. Failure to meet that oath can result in firing, and betraying that oath willfully can result in charges. You cannot ask for more, because you would not have a single cop in America.

"To serve and protect" goes well into the domain of false and deceptive advertising.

I disagee with you completely, but also know that arguing with cop-haters is a waste of time. We'll have to agree to disagree.

35 posted on 10/21/2004 12:23:44 PM PDT by Shryke
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To: Non-Sequitur
Since when is providing defective merchandise 'mission critical'?

Your nick fits your comment.

Use of products A and B save lives.
Product A is frequently not used due to its inconvenience.
Product B is used far more often than A because of its convenience.
Product A lasts 5 years before it officially expires.
Product B was thought to last 5 years before it officially expires.
During production of B, there are hints it might not last as long as expected; determining product lifespan will take months.

Mission-critical life-affecting decision: do you...
1 - instantly halt production of B, leaving buyers with the deficiencies of A
2 - continue production of B, giving buyers the choice of A or B while figuring out the nature of defects before the defects become life-threatening problems?

There are arguments for and against options 1 and 2. SCBA had to choose between them. Lawyers are very good at "proving" the wrong choice was made. SCBA made the best choice they could, and nobody got hurt...but now they're out of business. General consensus is that availability of Zylon vests, given they work fine though for a shorter period, is the mission-critical preference. Kevlar may be technically better over years, but if it's not used...

36 posted on 10/21/2004 12:29:09 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: Shryke
I disagee with you completely, but also know that arguing with cop-haters is a waste of time.

The general public overwhemlingly believes that police have a legal duty to protect and defend them from criminal attack, especially when they call 911 about crimes in progress against them. They are wrong. Where do you suppose this erroneous impression comes from? If you were to ask John Q. Public, what, exactly, does "to serve and protect" mean, I also bet they would answer, in part, the above misunderstanding.

37 posted on 10/21/2004 12:41:06 PM PDT by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: coloradan

Cops CANNOT protect every individual perfectly - that is preposterous and impossible (hence RKBA) - but they can do their level best to protect as many individuals as they can, which sometimes means letting some suffer harm while ensuring a greater number do not. Call it triage, call it quality assurance - realistically, you can't have perfect service in every instance.

Your gripe amounts to buying a popular product which turns out to be defective (a normal statistical occurence) and blaming the manufacturer of "false and deceptive advertising". The guarantee stamped on the box does NOT mean that the product absolutely positively will work.

You get what you pay for. You - personally - are not paying much for police protection. What you get for that money is pretty good. If you want better, hire a bodyguard ... and be prepared to pay far more.

Paying little and being appalled at not getting much (regardless of what's stamped on the box) shows a lack of understanding of reality.


38 posted on 10/21/2004 12:41:48 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: coloradan

People are under false impressions about alot of things. In what way is this relevant to a police officer's oath?


39 posted on 10/21/2004 12:42:31 PM PDT by Shryke
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To: coloradan
They are wrong.

Yup. Funny how people expect a SWAT team to materialize next to them instantly upon dialing 911, when they know darn well there isn't a cop within hundreds or thousands of yards most of the time.

When I open a beer, I don't expect a party to break out - despite what TV ads tell me. Likewise for dialing 911.

40 posted on 10/21/2004 12:45:07 PM PDT by ctdonath2
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