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Military brass defend need for submarines to help patrol huge ocean
Canadian Press via Sun Media ^ | 2004-10-20 | Stephen Thorne

Posted on 10/20/2004 7:12:33 PM PDT by Clive

OTTAWA (CP) - Top military officers defended the need for submarines before a Commons committee Wednesday, saying they are critical to Canadian defence and sovereignty - even if they can't sail under the Arctic ice.

"Submarines remain an indispensable part of this force because they offer a wide range of capabilities," said the chief of defence staff, Gen. Ray Henault. "More than 40 other countries have this underwater capability. "Submarines by their nature are difficult to detect and provide information that cannot be detected by other means."

Henault and the chief of maritime staff, Vice.-Adm. Bruce MacLean, were not asked to address the procurement and ultimate purchase of four used submarines from Britain in the late-1990s.

The all-party defence committee decided this week to investigate the lease-to-purchase program after fire aboard one of the subs, HMCS Chicoutimi, killed one sailor and left eight others with smoke inhalation.

The probe will not address the technical issues now being studied by a military board of inquiry looking into the accident. Rather, it will tackle political and other issues that may have influenced the acquisition.

The subs have been plagued by problems as Canada embarked on a multi-year refit and start-up program, including, rust, leaks and electrical problems.

Outside the committee, Prime Minister Paul Martin said the subs came "very highly recommended by the navy."

"I think what we have to do. . .is wait for the results of the inquiry," Martin said. "There was an extensive discussion - I participated in it - at cabinet with the navy at the time."

Inside the hearing, the committee's Liberal chairman, Pat O'Brien, had to continually rein in some members who tried to venture into more specific justifications for the purchase, including New Democrat Bill Blaikie.

Henault said it was important to foster as seamless a transition to new subs as possible so as not to lose the capability among a generation of submariners, prompting Blaikie to ask whether that need forced Canada's hand into buying an inferior product after Britain opted to go with nuclear subs.

"It would seem to me that the navy was probably in a pretty difficult situation if you were concerned already about the diminishing of your capacity or your inventory of skilled people," said Blaikie.

"You may have found yourself in the position that it was either these four submarines, no matter what their history, or nothing."

MacLean said, regardless, there was a "good match between what these submarines could deliver and what we needed."

But Bloc Quebecois MP Claude Bachand pointed out the subs have limited capabilities under the polar ice cap, probably the most vulnerable region of Canada's 240,000-kilometre coastline.

"We require a presence up there," Bachand said.

Furthermore, he said aircraft - manned and unmanned - are quicker and more economical than submarines in any monitoring role, particularly given Canada's 10 million square kilometres of ocean.

"Submarines are eyes and ears and they are outstanding vessels to provide that kind of capability," said MacLean, himself a submariner.

"A submarine. . .can hear ships, can track ships and determine in some cases determine the type of ship literally tens and in some cases hundreds of miles away."

The submarines can be used in the approaches to the Arctic, he added. A month's patrol, he added, can assemble a very good picture of what's happening in any given area.

Procurement officials are expected to testify at the committee on Monday. Defence Minister Bill Graham is to appear on Nov. 3.


TOPICS: Canada; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: hmcschicoutimi
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1 posted on 10/20/2004 7:12:36 PM PDT by Clive
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To: Clive
Might want to buy the extended warranty this time:')
2 posted on 10/20/2004 7:14:39 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: Clive
Military brass defend need for submarines to help patrol huge ocean

As opposed to submarines needed to patrol tiny oceans? What kind of pinhead writes these headlines anyway? A grad-u-8 of jernalizm skewl?

3 posted on 10/20/2004 7:16:55 PM PDT by sionnsar (Cbs: "It's fake but true!" | Iran Azadi | Traditional Anglicans: trad-anglican.faithweb.com)
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To: Clive

What do the Canadians need a military for, much less a submarine? Are they afraid of the French?


4 posted on 10/20/2004 7:19:35 PM PDT by BS69 (The Black Helicopter Society)
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To: Clive

If Canada were to have a submarine (again) they would probably just station it on Lake Erie.


5 posted on 10/20/2004 7:20:00 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: CWOJackson
Someone HAS to tell the Canadians that submarines are NOT supposed to catch fire.
6 posted on 10/20/2004 7:22:12 PM PDT by 2thfxr ( letter I sent to Nightline)
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To: Clive

If you can't do something right, then maybe you shouldn't do it at all.


7 posted on 10/20/2004 7:22:49 PM PDT by Kirkwood (I think, therefore I am Republican!)
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To: CWOJackson

The Canadians are devloping a new torpedo called the "Molson."

A six shot spread of them will send anyone to the bottom!


8 posted on 10/20/2004 7:23:35 PM PDT by montomike (Gay means happy and carefree not an abomination)
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To: 2thfxr

They go under the water to put out the fire.


9 posted on 10/20/2004 7:23:56 PM PDT by BS69 (The Black Helicopter Society)
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To: Great Dane; Alberta's Child; headsonpikes; coteblanche; Ryle; albertabound; mitchbert; ...

-


10 posted on 10/20/2004 7:24:45 PM PDT by Clive
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To: Clive
But Bloc Quebecois MP Claude Bachand pointed out the subs have limited capabilities under the polar ice cap, probably the most vulnerable region of Canada's 240,000-kilometre coastline.
"We require a presence up there," Bachand said.
Furthermore, he said aircraft - manned and unmanned - are quicker and more economical than submarines in any monitoring role,

Even under the polar ice cap, you cheese-eating surrender monkey?

11 posted on 10/20/2004 7:25:16 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Never apologise. Never explain)
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To: montomike

LOL!


12 posted on 10/20/2004 7:27:36 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: Clive

If you don't have subs, you may as well scrap the entire navy. Your boats will be absolutely defenseless against a modern sub force.


13 posted on 10/20/2004 7:27:38 PM PDT by Palmetto
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To: Clive

What is amazing is that Sweden, a country with 6 million people, can develop its OWN subs, and Canada a country with 25 million people, and MUCH more coast to patrol, needs to go to some other country's salvage yard and get a used sub.


14 posted on 10/20/2004 7:32:28 PM PDT by keithtoo (GOP: Faith , Family, Freedom. DemonRats: Traitors, Haters and Vacillators)
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To: Palmetto
"If you don't have subs, you may as well scrap the entire navy. Your boats will be absolutely defenseless against a modern sub force."

You obviously haven't seen their "navy". I have...subs won't help.

15 posted on 10/20/2004 7:33:24 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: Clive

I think Canada is worried that those terrible Greenlanders may invade from the north.


16 posted on 10/20/2004 7:36:41 PM PDT by cynicom (<p)
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To: Clive

So, here's Canada trying to behave like a real country again. What's the saying? Canada's not so much a country as a location?


17 posted on 10/20/2004 7:39:31 PM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
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To: All
In all fairness to our ex-allies up north, they do have some legitimate concerns. Back during the original Bush Presidency the United States and Canada went through one of their periodic disputes over fishing rights along the Alaska/British Columbia border.

As part of this on again-off again dispute, the United States thumbed their nose at Canada and sent one of the Coast Guard's Polar Class icebreakers (virtually unarmed) through the Northwest Passage (up and over Canada) without gaining Canadian permission. Canada protested but were incapable of stopping an unarmed vessel from doing whatever it wanted.

A Canadian submarine wouldn't have changed the outcome but it might make them feel less impotent.

18 posted on 10/20/2004 7:40:09 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: Clive
The subs have been plagued by problems . . .including, rust, leaks

I can see where that would be a problem.

19 posted on 10/20/2004 7:40:32 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Clive

I served on the USS Chicago from 89 - 92 when it visited Vancouver as part of an exercise. We were hosted by a Canadian surface ship, a common practice when a ship visits a foreign port.

The Canadian wardroom invited us over for dinner our first night in. They had a wet bar with a cook filing orders for all of us while we ate. I had two beers - couldn't believe we were allowed to do this. Then it came time to leave.

As we exited the quarterdeck, I noticed a chief standing at the brow giving breathalizer tests to people who were leaving the ship. I asked one of the Canadian officers with us what was up. He said they wanted to make sure no one was too drunk to go ashore and cause problems. Meanwhile, right across the pier, where the Chicago was moored, our topside watch was checking returning sailors to ensure no one was too drunk to come aboard.

Amazing difference between the two navies, huh?


20 posted on 10/20/2004 7:52:36 PM PDT by meisterbrewer
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