Posted on 10/19/2004 7:32:20 AM PDT by Remole
VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- An official at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said a California canon lawyer seeking a formal decree of heresy against Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, Democratic presidential nominee, has misrepresented his contact with the Vatican office.
"The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has had no contact with Mr. (Marc) Balestrieri," said Dominican Father Augustine DiNoia, undersecretary of the congregation.
"His claim that the private letter he received from (Dominican) Father Basil Cole is a Vatican response is completely without merit," Father DiNoia told Catholic News Service Oct. 19, declining to discuss the matter further.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnews.com ...
"Maybe.
We'll see.
"
I don't think so. This whole line of stuff should be dropped. When a REAL official of the RCC comes out and chides this De Fide group for publicizing this false excommunication, that should be the end of the discussion.
This was never going anywhere, and is nothing but a distraction from the real issues.
Kerry will NOT be excommunicated, and will continue to receive the sacrament at mass.
Don't cackle so loudly, you might hurt yourself.
Actually you should feel sorry for the Catholic Church which allows politics and public opinion to decide its doctrines. But this is nothing new. Marriage a Sacrament? Just know the right person or somone on the Tribunal and get an Annulment. Or, whatever happened to opposition to birth control? Oh well, I think the Pope at least believes what he says. But the Vatican has always lived in fear of offending anyone in Europe.
I've never understood people who say they want to change their church to fit their personal beliefs. If you don't believe in their doctrines, find a church you can follow. There are certainly plenty to choose from.
SHAME!
Ouch. Accurate, but ouch.
"They're flip-flopping like they did with "The Passion."
"
Who's flip-flopping? This is the first OFFICIAL statement from the Vatican on this issue. The other letter was most definitely UNOFFICIAL and carried no weight whatever.
The person who wrote the letter to De Fide was speaking unofficially, not as a spokesperson for the RCC. De Fide took it as an official response, or misled people into believing that it was official.
They've been slapped down by the Vatican. It's one more example of why these "news" stories from miscellaneous sites are so dangerous. Yet, they get posted, as this one did, multiple times on FR, then distributed widely in emails.
Some of us warned yesterday, when everyone was all worked up over this "excommunication," that it wasn't any sort of official announcement from the RCC, and that it was unlikely to happen.
That doesn't make us Kerry supporters. It just makes us concerned with truthful statements. This was a hoax, essentially. Now we have the real story, direct from the Vatican. There is no excommunication. There will be no excommunication.
Back to real reasons not to vote for Kerry, OK?
What flip flop? Father Augustine DiNoia is merely restating that the letter to Marc Balestrieri was unofficial.
Dear sinkspur,
"The Vatican is not going to inject itself, in any way, into this political campaign.
"It may do something after the election is over, but Balesteri jumped the gun with his claim."
Well, I don't think I'd said otherwise. In fact, I'd speculated yesterday, that the Vatican is trying to say these things quietly for now, but will deal with this issue soon after the election, specifically to avoid the charge of trying to interfere with this election.
Then, things would be clear for the '06 election, but no one would be able to claim they'd try to interfere with particular races for specific offices.
Based on the "unofficial" nature of the correspondence, and what sartorius had linked to in First Things, I'd speculated that the bishops and the Vatican had decided to act, and that the party trying to keep things "fuzzy" had lost. But I also speculated that the "fuzzy" party had won a compromise not to let this stuff get loud until after Nov 2.
It may be that Mr. Balestrieri has jumped the gun.
But I'm not quite buying the categorical denial of the Vatican priest.
I do think that there still may be a lot of stuff that happens after the election.
And clearly, Mr. Kerry is excommunicated latae sententiae.
sitetest
Kerry's record on abortion isn't a "real" reason not to vote for him?? Yeah right!
And never should have been started in the first place.
"It may be that Mr. Balestrieri has jumped the gun.
But I'm not quite buying the categorical denial of the Vatican priest.
I do think that there still may be a lot of stuff that happens after the election.
"
It's not going to happen. The RCC is NOT going to get into the business of excommunicating powerful US politicians for supporting abortion. That would be a foolish act on their part.
They tried that once and look what happened: The Church of England was formed. The RCC learned their lesson at that time, and won't be repeating that mistake.
"Kerry's record on abortion isn't a "real" reason not to vote for him?? Yeah right!"
Of course it's a reason. Kerry supports abortion. He has said so. So...use that against him. Don't say he has been excommunicated or that he will be. That's false. Instead, simply point out that he supports abortion. How simple.
Using false information in a debate is foolish.
It isn't a counter attack, its the truth. That thing wasn't a Vatican response. As I said before all this noise is Balestrieri trying to drum up excitement and support for his group.
In fact, the Vatican didn't do anything here, and they are now merely stating that fact publically. They won't act until after the election, and even then it will be left to the local biship to decide whether to act or not.
patent
"This whole line of stuff should be dropped
And never should have been started in the first place."
Dear MineralMan,
"Kerry will NOT be excommunicated, and will continue to receive the sacrament at mass."
He will continue to receive Holy Communion, at least for now.
His excommunication ought not, however, be framed in the future tense. The letter of theologian makes clear that he is currently excommunicated latae sententiae. One might say the theologian is wrong. But the theologian is not positing that the Church ought to take action to excommunicate Mr. Kerry sometime in the near or distant future.
The theologian has stated that those who are Catholic politicans who support a legal right to abortion are already in a state of excommunication. Either the theologian is right, or he is wrong. It may be an unsettled question to many right now, but the answer already exists objectively.
It merely needs to be recognized or clarified.
Although the offense is different, Mr. Kerry, and Mr. Cuomo, and Ms. Collins, and Mr. Pataki, et. al., are all excommunicated in the same manner as a Catholic doctor who has performed an abortion. It is an automatic operation of law as a result of the act itself that causes the excommunication. Neither pope nor bishop nor theologian need make any mention, give any formal notice or recognition that the doctor is now excommunicated.
Similarly with pro-choice Catholic politicians. If the theologian's reasoning is correct, then these all are excommunicated. It requires no formal notice or recognition.
Although that would be nice.
sitetest
Don't say he has been excommunicated or that he will be. That's false.To say that Sen. Kerry has been officially excommunicated is false, but to say that he has been excommunicated by his own actions is true.
The Vatican needs a new flag, preferably one with a two headed creature.
Who said I was trumping up this letter? I never intended to vote for Kerry. All I was doing was responding to Siobhan's comment, which was basically saying the same thing.
I agree.
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