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Posted on 10/18/2004 11:02:36 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
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AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION | PRIVACY POLICY Powered By Laptop Lobbyist
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Just crossed several thousand miles of Russia and the Stans on a motorcycle. I had my papers checked 2 or 3 times a day on average.
A couple weeks later the Beslan massacre occured apparently with the collusion of the local police.
I'm waiting to hear from the "I love the police state, I don't have anything to hide" crowd.
We demand implanted chips in the right hand or forehead...skip the desensitizing fore play...of ID cards or bracelets...and get to the main event
Then we should make sure our immigration, intelligence, and FBI agencies are focused on these problems for the long term, rather than subject all Americans to somebody's wallet-sized power trip.
As opposed to the new national ID cards? They're going to want to see IDs anyway, so why not use one that is already established?
-PJ
Hmm.. A National ID card. I like it. I believe we need this so that we can create a true National Census as well as have accurate voting roles. Think about credit card fraud. You would have to present your National ID with your Visa. And if you traveled on an Americvan passport, it eliminates fake passports.
It would be a major blow to Socialism in that they cannot commit fraud to further their agendas. Does this take away any of our freedoms? No. Violates our civil liberties? No.
All this does is confirm who you say you are.
As far as any
so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
I think that you are engaging in ACLU type of hysteria.
Please view with caution. If you interested in understanding what is written in the NT Book of the Revelation do yourself a favor and at least obtain a few books on the subject. But there is prophecy in this book in Chapter 13 to the effect:
Do consider based on various studies "he" referes to the Anti-Christ. OK.
15. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads;
17. And that no man might buy or sell; save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Perhaps we are further along then some may think. The technologies have been available for imprinting numbers/text into the skin for years, using special type dyes, etc.. Point is, it could be quite convienent to pass a bill that allows all to have a small Integrated Circuit so to speak, under the skin in the name of security. This has been an ongoing topic for many years in various forms.
Though the ACU is often on the lib side, can't help but not bash them on this one. Of course the implants in one form or another are inevitable in the long run. The concept fits into this century for many good reasons, assuming societies want to become further subjected to close control.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
Kiss your rights goodbye? That's about 30 years late. We are one of the most law-shackled countries in the world. The Bill of Rights has so many exceptions now that it would require 10 pages of footnotes after it if anyone bothered to read it at all. And the Supreme Court is unwilling to defend the Constitution against ANY legislative assault. So I am with you in your disgust with a proposed national ID card. We are so far down the slippery slope, however, that climbing back up has moved from unlikely to impossible.
The beast should get busy with important things.
The ID would be inserted into a machine with a national database that could bring up a photo and other pertinant info. It's our only hope against voter fraud.
I was analyzing the validity of the statement to the argument, not the argument itself. I'm reminded of Lurch's comments during the last debate about how biometrics could catch terrorists at the border. Yeah, like everyone entering this country illegally is gonna queue up to a biometrics station and get read.
The card would be just the first step. We haven't tried simple steps yet - for example, just enforcing existing visa requirements in force at the time would have kept most of the hijackers out. If we apply straightforward approaches and they still fail, then maybe we can talk about a national ID card. But we have to exhaust other possibilities first.
But realize the inherent dangers in my position - that failure of straightforward approaches may be defined as a successful terror attack.
I'd rather be free than vote.
Actually, you would have to look at the Brits battling commie terrorists in Malaysia in the mid-late 1950s. ID cards were one of the tools they used against them. Other stuff included controlling the movement of food (you couldn't take food into contested areas) and arms (folks were shot if they take with weapons they were not allowed to have...).
Dunno if it would work in this day and age.
Not until government bureaucrats start asking for it at checkpoints. Then it violates your Fourth Amendment right to be secure from unreasonable searches, as far as I'm concerned.
Oddly enough, the ACLU is fighting this, too. Strange bedfellows, don't you think? I guess the ACU is just one letter different from the ACLU.
I have to wonder about this. If one of the most liberal organizations of the country, and one of the most conservative, are on the same side, which side is right?
I think this bears thinking about.
Some points to ponder:
1) No form of ID can be created that, given enough inspriation, can not be forged. Even implanted RF ID chips can be forged or even stolen from people after they are deceased.
2) We already have national IDs... Social Security numbers and drivers licenses (while drivers licenses are state-issued, the data -including your digitized photo- go into a national data bank). These are also easily forged.
3) Terrorists don't need an ID to carry out a terrorist act.
4) A legally ID'ed person can later be persuaded to be a terrorist.
5) Some people will not honor the requirement of an ID, much like some employers still hire illegal immigrants in cases where it is clearly illegal to do so.
There's more, but I think you get the point.
Congratulations! It took a whole 16 posts before the "end times" crowd crawled out of the woodwork!
Not at all. It only confirms that you are holding a card. There are no guarantees that the information the card is valid nor that information linked from the card to a database is valid. (It can be guaranteed that such a database always compromised.)
If you are going to trust the card so much, then it becomes much more valuable to make a counterfeit.
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