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Interview With Pollster John Zogby Next US chief has to heal the meanness
Straits Times ^ | 10/18/04 | By Pranay Gupte

Posted on 10/17/2004 5:06:40 PM PDT by mylife

OCT 18, 2004 Interview With Pollster John Zogby Next US chief has to heal the meanness

By Pranay Gupte

IN MR John Zogby's mind, there's little question that the electorate in the United States is divided into what he calls 'two warring nations' - one favouring President George W. Bush in the upcoming Nov 2 presidential election, the other siding with his Democratic challenger, Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts.

The increasingly sharpening divisions are over ideology - conservative versus liberal - and over the very core values of the American system, which has long prided itself on tolerance and magnanimity.

'Each side feels that if the other wins, it would be the end of the Republic,' Mr Zogby told The Straits Times during an overnight visit to Singapore sponsored by Reuters.

'Whoever the next president is, he is going to have to be, first and foremost, a healer - or at least someone who stops this widening, this deepening of ideological divisions in the US. The ugly thing is, this meanness has spilled over from the halls of Congress to Main Street, US.'

What Mr Zogby thinks of the American Republic's predicament matters - not just because he is widely considered to be one of the country's most accurate pollsters, but also because he has studied and taught history and the culture of societies.

It's not so much the arithmetic behind the statistics in polls but the sociology of respondents that matters, he said. That means it's the personal environment of the respondent that ultimately determines his or her political choices.

'Societies need to have sustained civility in their political discourse,' he said. 'Remember the election of 1800?'

His interviewer did not.

'Well, let me tell you,' the bespectacled Mr Zogby said. 'It was a bitter election, and Thomas Jefferson was finally declared the winner. His first exhortation to Congress was 'We're all Federalists, we're all Republicans, so let us proceed to bond, to heal our wounds'.'

That is Mr Zogby's way of saying that President Bush has been 'the most divisive president in modern American history'.

'Republicans and Democrats aren't talking to each other across the aisle,' he said. 'In Congress, they used to swim together, play tennis and racquetball, and they used to party together. Now they don't even know one another's names. The civility has gone.'

It has gone, in his view, because President Bush deliberately chose to ignore the 'creative centre' that traditionally energised American politics.

From the very start of his term in January 2001, Mr Bush resolved that he would go as far right as the political structure would tolerate. Unfortunately, the very tolerance that has signified magnanimity permitted Mr Bush to take his policies to unprecedented locations rightward.

'The danger of ignoring the 'creative centre' is that you then cannot appeal to both sides in the political and sociological game,' Mr Zogby said. 'That's why the next president has to be like Thomas Jefferson. The American political system simply cannot take any more of this push to the right.'

Mr Zogby - he's clearly flattered when he's called Professor Zogby - belongs to an industry that, as elections and public-opinion sampling go, is relatively young.

In their 1988 book, Polls and Surveys: Understanding What They Tell Us, Professors Norman M. Bradburn and Seymour Sudman say that the presidential election of 1936 brought the new 'science' of polling to prominence when three independent polls (by Crossley, Gallup, and Elmo Roper) predicted Franklin D. Roosevelt's victory over Alf Landon.

They point out that these polls stood in stark contrast to the prediction of the Literary Digest that Roosevelt would receive only 40.9 per cent of the vote. As in its widely publicised reports about public opinion over the preceding decade, the Digest rested its 1936 prediction on a tally of ballots returned from millions that had been mailed out across the country.

That Crossley, Gallup, and Roper had the audacity to base predictions on relatively small samples (compared to the two million ballots on which the Digest based its claim) was itself newsworthy, according to Prof Bradburn and Prof Sudman.

'But when their projections were borne out by the election returns, the validity of modern polling had been established. The point had been made that the way a sample is drawn is more important than its size. Bias towards the affluent inherent in the lists from which the Digest had drawn names - telephone subscribers and owners of automobiles - could not be offset by large numbers,' they say.

They also point out that in 1848, Belgian mathematician Adolphe Quetelet advanced the idea of the 'average man' by arguing that the concept of the normal distribution of observations around a mean could be applied to analysis of society as well as to the physical world.

Polling has come a long way since then. Globally, it's now a US$4 billion (S$6.77 billion) industry annually. It employs nearly 100,000 people and has five distinct sectors - academic/non-profit; private; mass media sector; government; and in-house.

In 1939, the firm of Rensis Likert developed polling for the US Department of Agriculture, the first such operation within an agency of government. Polls by Hadley Cantril provided then-president Franklin D. Roosevelt, a Democrat, with valuable information on American public opinion throughout World War II.

The Office of Public Opinion Research he established in 1940 at Princeton University conducted research into the methodology of polling and became a central archive for polling data. In 1941, the National Opinion Research Centre, now at the University of Chicago, was established.

In short, everyone polls nowadays - corporations conduct polls in order to determine how to launch new brands or reinvigorate old ones; politicians poll in order to focus their campaigning funds on specific regions and communities; companies even poll their own employees to assess corporate morale and productivity; media organisations poll readers to determine their reading habits - and often adjust their coverage accordingly.

All this means that Mr Zogby is a pretty busy man - and certainly a wealthy one. His 20-year-old firm, Zogby International, based in Utica, New York, conducts polls in several dozen countries.

Of Arab descent, Mr Zogby is especially interested in Middle East issues, and is currently undertaking a series of polls in Iraq about issues such as the viability of establishing a genuinely democratic state there.

But isn't polling still a somewhat uncertain science after all these years? There's little question that after the 2000 presidential election in the US - when the key state of Florida was first awarded to Democrat Al Gore, then to his Republican challenger Mr Bush - polling took a huge black eye.

It suffered a solid blow to the solar plexus this May when virtually every major poll in India predicted that the ruling United Democratic Alliance led by the right-wing Hindu fundamentalist Bharatiya Janata Party would easily be re-elected.

And, of course, there's the mother of all polling disasters: In 1948 almost every American pollster predicted that Harry S. Truman would be defeated by Governor Thomas E. Dewey; Truman won by almost five percentage points.

'Polling can be uncertain only if you rely on statistics alone,' is Mr Zogby's riposte. 'That's why an effective pollster has to rely on culture, history and sociology. I repeat, polling is the study of human behaviour, not simply a sampling of people's preferences.'

That may well explain his success. His big test will come on Nov 2. In Singapore last Friday, he flatly predicted that Mr Kerry would become the 44th President of the United States.

And what if he's wrong?

Mr Zogby looked at his questioner with some irritation. But it could have been the fatigue on his face after a 24-hour flight from New York.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: totalbullshit; zogby
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To: BigSkyFreeper
" Yet, you'll never hear a Democrat admit they're wholly responsible for the polarization of this country. . .They've been seething in their own pent up rage for nearly 2 years, blaming everyone but themselves."

And they have deliberately cultivated, with such enormous energies; as hateful a climate as possible to facilitate their politics and the next 'election war'.

Does Zogby live under a rock or what; if he does not; and he does not understand the 'meaness' and where and with whom it begins; then he must be a Liberal Democrat. . .' at heart.

61 posted on 10/17/2004 5:53:20 PM PDT by cricket (Don't lose your head. . vote Republican. . .)
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To: mylife

First, he'll have to heal the demonrats.


62 posted on 10/17/2004 5:53:21 PM PDT by Check6
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To: mylife
Another clue to his Liberalism:

"IN MR John Zogby's mind, there's little question that the electorate in the United States is divided into what he calls 'two warring nations'". . .Yes, divided Mr. Zogby; but not equal. . .

63 posted on 10/17/2004 5:55:45 PM PDT by cricket (Don't lose your head. . vote Republican. . .)
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To: mylife
"His big test will come on Nov 2. In Singapore last Friday, he flatly predicted that Mr. Kerry would become the 44th President of the United States." I can't wait to see his ugly face when Bush clobbers Hanoi John Kerry on November 2. I am thinking recall elections in California and John Zogby's confident prediction that Cruz Bustamante was going to win by to the tune of 10 % with only about a eek to go, only for Arnold to win by a massive over 10%!! And error rate from Zogby by to the tune of 20% +! With a record like that, its gotta be a great sign for Bush when Zogby the Kerry partisan comes out with dopey predictions like that. I am more confident than ever, President Bush WILL win these elections.
64 posted on 10/17/2004 5:55:59 PM PDT by KwasiOwusu
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To: mylife

Heal the meanness???? Good Idea...

We should simply declare open season on leftists....
That is ONLY was to cure a lying leftist....

Semper Fi


65 posted on 10/17/2004 5:58:35 PM PDT by river rat (You may turn the other cheek...But I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: KwasiOwusu

I'd forgoten the bustamate/swarzenegger prediction! L0L


66 posted on 10/17/2004 5:58:45 PM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: mylife

What a pile of horse manure. Bush went too far right. Give me a break.


67 posted on 10/17/2004 5:59:27 PM PDT by Raycpa (Alias, VRWC_minion,)
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To: mylife
'Whoever the next president is, he is going to have to be, first and foremost, a healer - or at least someone who stops this widening, this deepening of ideological divisions in the US. The ugly thing is, this meanness has spilled over from the halls of Congress to Main Street, US.'

Uh, no John, the next CIC's primary mission is to stop islamofascism in its tracks and kill every deadender that we can find.

Buy a clue Zogby.

68 posted on 10/17/2004 6:00:18 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (Always ask yourself, does this pass the Global Test?)
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To: mylife
Is it even possible to heal a rift between international socialism and American constitutionalism? I realize that the Dems and the Pubs are only imperfect representatives of each, but this is really what it boils down to. Cats and dogs will always hate each other and so will the Right and the Left. We're dealing with totally different ways of looking at the world: different premises, different conclusions, different everything.

On the other hand, America has always been divided in one way or another. The question that's interesting to me is: have we finally reached the ultimate divide? Are we now up against a philosophical disagreement that's more fundamental and irreconcilable than previous disagreements have been? In other words, is the present division historically unique in its apparent intractibility?

People will point to different periods in America's history, like the Civil War, and say "no, these times aren't unique -- it was even worse then". But I have a feeling that it wasn't worse then. In the Civil War we had two competing conservatisms. The North wanted to preserve the Union and the South wanted to preserve its way of life.

Now, however, we have one side that's conservative while the other is transformative. This is a new wrinkle. Transformation requires the destruction or abandonment of that which exists so that it may be replaced with something better. The transformationists want to saw the very branch off from underneath us. They want to scrap our constitutional ideals and replace them with socialist ones.

So I (tentatively, realizing that my knowledge of history is far from complete) posit that our present predicament is unique. Prior rifts have been characterized by competing conservative factions. But we now have a conservative faction competing with a transformative faction.

69 posted on 10/17/2004 6:00:56 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: mylife
Zogby's insights ring hollow. Considering his election day snap polls have been completely wrong every single time they're cited. Most recent examples were "Gore's landslide in 2000", and a "huge victory for the Democrats in the Senate" in 2002.

There's nothing to read into the thinking of John Zogby except that he's a partisan nitwit batting .000.

70 posted on 10/17/2004 6:01:02 PM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (Real gun control is - all shots inside the ten ring)
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To: mylife

I know that President Bush will, indeed, set a "new tone" when he is reelected.

He will send Kerry, both Clintons, Mr./Mrs. Rich, Dan Rather and Sandy Berger to prison.

These actions will bond our Nation to unpresidented heights.


71 posted on 10/17/2004 6:02:04 PM PDT by Kahuna
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To: mylife; BOBWADE; Mrs Zip
or at least someone who stops this widening, this deepening of ideological divisions in the US. The ugly thing is, this meanness has spilled over from the halls of Congress to Main Street, US

Translation: This deepening division and meanness, caused by the GOP because it would not capitulate to the left, anti American dimocRat party, could be smoothed out by the right giving up all rights and allowing the US to be ruled by the UN.

See how simple it is if you understand the "anyone but Bush" agenda.

72 posted on 10/17/2004 6:02:34 PM PDT by zip ((Remember: pingDimocRat lies told often enough became truth to 42% of Americans))
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To: airborne
" Not likely! I have 2 sons!"

Maybe a MALE lesbian? (Haven't heard Rush use that one for a while!)

73 posted on 10/17/2004 6:04:15 PM PDT by Sooth2222
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To: onyx
On the tag-line; have had it for weeks - maybe a couple of months now; you are the first to notice (!). . . OR. . .maybe, the first to notice . . .and like it AND comment on it ;^). . . Thanks.
74 posted on 10/17/2004 6:05:16 PM PDT by cricket (Don't lose your head. . vote Republican. . .)
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To: mylife
SCREW YOU John Zogby!
75 posted on 10/17/2004 6:05:30 PM PDT by patriciamary
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To: mylife
Based on the title alone:

[spit]

76 posted on 10/17/2004 6:05:59 PM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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To: mylife

Screw that...I say bring it on and lets rumble


77 posted on 10/17/2004 6:06:28 PM PDT by antaresequity
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To: mylife

WHAT FELLOWSHIP

has light with darkness!

II Cor 6:14

14Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?


78 posted on 10/17/2004 6:06:42 PM PDT by Quix (PRAYERS 4 PRES, FAMILY, ADVISORS N OUR REPUBLIC IN OCT MAY BE VITALLY CRUCIAL)
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To: Petronski

Great reply,I'm sick of all these people,I have had it,enough is enough!


79 posted on 10/17/2004 6:06:51 PM PDT by patriciamary
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To: zip
The ugly thing is, this meanness has spilled over from the halls of Congress to Main Street, US

Zogby forgets the congress works for us. It started in the streets.

80 posted on 10/17/2004 6:07:13 PM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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