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GIs who refused job had unarmored trucks
courier press ^ | 10 17 04 | JIM KRANE

Posted on 10/17/2004 2:40:08 PM PDT by freepatriot32

click here to read article


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To: freepatriot32
Chambers said the 18 soldiers who refused the mission on Wednesday morning - driving seven fuel tankers...

What does an 'uparmored' fuel tanker look like? ;~)

41 posted on 10/17/2004 3:53:47 PM PDT by verity (The Liberal Media is America's Enemy)
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To: aft_lizard
You cannot refuse a lawful order. You can refuse an unlawful order, however, good luck proving the order was unlawful during your courts martial.

What this group did resembles mutiny.
42 posted on 10/17/2004 3:55:14 PM PDT by PJammers (PJihadi! Pa Ja Ack Ba!!)
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To: freepatriot32

This is terrible.
Every soldier should have been outfitted in 3" of depleted uranium armor with air conditioning and a vibration massage unit to ease the tension of combat. Not only that, but they should have been able to drive their convoy by remote control from the relative safety of an underground bunker specially constructed back in their hometowns in the U.S. Kerry would never have allowed U.S. troops to be treated in such a heartless manner. He has a plan.


43 posted on 10/17/2004 3:55:17 PM PDT by finnigan2
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To: PJammers

Right now you do not know the whole story, so you do not know if it was a lawful or unlawful order. From what I have read it seems to be lawful, but then again this unit has been there for 9 months and this is there first complaint.


44 posted on 10/17/2004 4:00:11 PM PDT by aft_lizard (Actually i dropped in on)
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To: Bobalu
Too bad you hadn't heard about that million dollar prize, you could have won it hands down.

Don't you hate it when that happens?

45 posted on 10/17/2004 4:01:59 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle
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To: PJammers

Exactly. These people should be court martialed. It is a breakdown in military discipline, end of discussion. If you let them get away with this, who is to say what the next group will object to when they refuse their orders? This lot belongs in Leavenworth. If there was really a problem with the equipment, there was a way they could approach their CO and point out the problems. If the CO said, "I know, I'm sorry, but that's the best we have right now and there is the objective, and you're nominated," then the only reply befitting an American serviceman was 'YES, SIR."


46 posted on 10/17/2004 4:05:11 PM PDT by Inkie (Surround Fallujia and start shooting.)
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To: aft_lizard
This was posted in another thread. It is an excerpt from the UCMJ:

ART. 94. MUTINY OR SEDITION
(a) Any person subject to this chapter who--
(1) with intent to usurp or override lawful military authority, refuses, in concert with any other person, to obey orders or otherwise do his duty or creates any violence or disturbance is guilty of mutiny;
(2) with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition;

You are right, I wasn't there, however, I'm betting dollars to donuts this group fits definition number(1) above.
47 posted on 10/17/2004 4:09:04 PM PDT by PJammers (PJihadi! Pa Ja Ack Ba!!)
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To: aft_lizard

Sandbags are VERY effective, somewhere on the internet are guidelines, if I recall 12 inches is supposed to stop anything below .50cal


48 posted on 10/17/2004 4:12:31 PM PDT by E.Allen
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To: freepatriot32
Question????Who actually did the convoy and did they use the same vech or did they use different ones? It did say the mission was complied with......
49 posted on 10/17/2004 4:13:10 PM PDT by marmar (Faith is a beautiful thing.....)
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To: marmar
If your asking who completed the mission, then the answer is:

Good disciplined soldiers who know there are troops on the front lines who depend on those who deliver supplies.
50 posted on 10/17/2004 4:22:15 PM PDT by PJammers (PJihadi! Pa Ja Ack Ba!!)
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To: PJammers

I know that...but did they use the same vech, that the other crew refused?


51 posted on 10/17/2004 4:23:38 PM PDT by marmar (Faith is a beautiful thing.....)
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To: marmar

jack deth they do have something to replace the hmmv for this type of stuff. the hmmv was never desigened to be an armored personel carrier. the m1117 guardian looks like it would do well. It has an enclosed gunners turret and is similar to a stryker but it has 4 wheels.


52 posted on 10/17/2004 4:30:33 PM PDT by Kewlhand`tek (What the hell was that? I hope it was outgoing!)
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To: freepatriot32

Had 2 flak jackets in Desert Storm, sat on 1, put 1 in the floor of my GMC Jimmy.....


53 posted on 10/17/2004 4:34:01 PM PDT by Feckless
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To: CindyDawg

Ninety-nine times out od a hundred I'd agree with you but there is that instance where you come up with some numbnut officer who doesn't think about what he's asking his troops to do. Let's see what an investigation says.


54 posted on 10/17/2004 4:35:14 PM PDT by thegreatbeast (Quid lucrum istic mihi est?)
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To: freepatriot32

Still not answered is whether they were to be sent out without the gun trucks and helicopters that are SOP according their General. On Fox earlier today he said there was supposed to be a gun truck for every five convoy vehicles and helicopters. If they had these they need to be punished severely regardless of the armor situation. If not they still need to be punished and who ever did not arrange the proper cover needs to go down hard.


55 posted on 10/17/2004 4:41:56 PM PDT by Nov3 (They knifed babies, They raped girls, They forced children to drink their own urine)
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To: raynearhood
BTW, the wet sock thing only worked if it was hung from your trucks rearview mirror while driving.

Yes, that's what he said they did. And despite the heat, yet because of the heat, they had to zip up the canvas top to keep the 140F air from moving around them as they drove, or it would burn. Burn, like the ceramic plate in his flak vest did on his back one day from spending all day in the sun (it literally cooked inside his flak jacket, left a near 2nd degree square red patch on his back). But did he ever refuse orders? No.

And thank YOU "raynearhood" for your service! :)

56 posted on 10/17/2004 4:42:46 PM PDT by DTogo (U.S. out of the U.N. & U.N out of the U.S.)
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To: marmar
It doesn't say in the article. I would bet that since the vehicles were all ready to go they found another crew to drive them.

It does say that the fuel was deliver albeit late.
57 posted on 10/17/2004 4:46:09 PM PDT by PJammers (PJihadi! Pa Ja Ack Ba!!)
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To: PJammers

Then I would say it was disobeying a direct order and they will pay a high price for their mutiny. I know that when I joined the service I knew I was joining the military. I would have to think long and hard before I disobeyed a direct order.


58 posted on 10/17/2004 4:58:29 PM PDT by marmar (Faith is a beautiful thing.....)
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We can operate remote vehicles on Mars...well...kinda. But I think the real plan is to identify and detonate the roadside bombs before they blow up one of our vehicles. No idea on how to do it...but it would be the most logical and cost effective method, IMO. It would save our men and women and our vehicles.


59 posted on 10/17/2004 4:59:38 PM PDT by TNdandelion
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To: Inkie

Until we know the full story...I'm not ready to hang ANY of our men and women serving in combat zones and it is a shame that any of us here sleeping in our nice, warm, comfy beds eating home cooked meals are so quick to jump on them.


60 posted on 10/17/2004 5:02:29 PM PDT by TNdandelion
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