Posted on 10/11/2004 9:37:22 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
China, Australia to hold first-ever joint naval exercise
Press Trust of India Beijing, October 11
Chinese and Australian navies will hold the first-ever joint naval exercise on October 14 off the Qingdao coast in east China, the state media reported on Monday.
As part of this, an Australian naval vessel arrived in Qingdao, a port city in east China's Shandong province on Sunday.
Chinese guided missile destroyer 'Harbin' and the Australian frigate 'Anazc' will participate in the joint naval search-and-rescue exercise with the North China Sea Fleet of the People's Liberation Army Navy.
It is the first time for the two navies to conduct cooperation in the non-traditional security area, Xinhua news agency reported.
The Australian naval vessel, with a crew of 191 aboard, will stay in Qingdao for five days and hold a series of friendly, cultural and sports activities.
Chinese navy had held similar exercises in the past with the naval forces of several countries including India, Pakistan and France thus improving bilateral military ties.
Those aussies better start learning to speak chinese.
Ah,.......a new 'rising sun'......commi-flag?
Now we have China, with little oil, a couple of BILLION people and humans looking for space, Australia now has both, space and oil.
Actually you forgot the second the second of the story. Australia woule not intervene IF Taiwan attacks the mainland first. It doesn't say what will happen if the Republic of China is attacked first.
Actually you forgot the second half of the story. Australia would not intervene IF Taiwan attacks the mainland first. It doesn't say what will happen if the Republic of China is attacked first.
Err,the Aussie foreign minister specifically said that they "would stay out of any conflict in the straits" -if you doubt me ,do a search on FR,there was a thread on it.The only country which will launch a strike is China-only folks bred on reading Dale Brown would think that Taiwan can even think of launching a pre-emptive strike on China. Let's see:-
1. China has an airforce about 6 times Taiwan's size & rapidly growing in sophistication,while Taiwan has steadily lost it's edge .
2. China has around 500 ballistic missiles aimed at Taiwan,where Taiwan has precisely,none.
3.Taiwan has a grand total of 2 combat worthy subs,while China has around 30,about 10 of which are equivalent or superior to Taiwanese subs.
4.Taiwan can hit very few parts of the mainland & not the least Beijing or Shanghai,whereas China can hit every inche of Taiwan-that's strategic dept!!
The fact is that most nations(including Australia) don't recognise Taiwan & Canberra's trade with China is skyrocketing-why waste time fighting a potentially disastrous war to risk that???
No, I read this in Hong Kong's media (specifically the Apple Daily and Ming Pao). And Ming Pao is hardly anti-Communist - it is very often more People's Daily than the real People's Daily.
I know I'm a few days behind, but let's put some facts out here.
At the moment, Australia has peaceful relationships with China. It is in neither countries interests for terrorism or piracy to flourish in the South East Asian region, and so we have a common interest. In line with those limited common interests we are engaging in some minor exercises with China.
We have serious concerns about China as well - we also have serious concerns about Indonesia, and India, to name just a couple of other countries, and a situation where we might find ourselves on the same side as China in a conflict with one of those nations is not impossible to contemplate.
Just as the US found itself on the same side as the Soviets in World War II. Wars can create strange alliances.
There's also the fact that exercises with China gives us the chance to show the Chinese that we're not a pushover - and lets us get a better idea of their capabilities.
These exercises are not that big a deal, and they certainly do not show a close relationship between China and Australia.
Secondly, Alexander Downer has not stated that Australia will remain neutral in any conflict between China and Taiwan. What he stated was that Australia has no treaty commitments that would automatically bring Australia into a war with China, if war between Taiwan and China broke out. That's a simple fact - we have no such treaty commitments. Nor would the ANZUS treaty bring us into such a war if the US became involved, because ANZUS doesn't deal with such a situation.
Saying that there are no treaty commitments does not mean Australia would remain neutral in such a wat. Australia also had no treaty commitments to get us involved in Iraq (Afghanistan was covered under ANZUS - because it involved a direct attack on the US mainland - Iraq was not). A war between China and Taiwan would probably involve Australian ships and possibly Australian troops, coming into the war on the side of Taiwan if China was the aggressor (which is the most likely scenario). And no statement has been made in Australia to suggest this is not the case.
All Alexander Downer was doing was pointing out that there are no treaty commitments that would automatically bring us into such a war. Our involvement in any such situation would therefore require a specific decision based on the specific circumstances of the specific conflict. Which is exactly what happened in Iraq.
Lets see,Singapore,Malaysia,Thailand,South Korea & Australia have all said the same things about China/Taiwan-that is,all of them respect the 1 China theory & will stay out of any war in the straits.Participating in a conflict against a nation with a ragged army & no nukes is not exactly the same as going to war against a country with the world's fastest growing economy & a huge military with over 300 nukes.If the Aussies do go to war against China(which is unlikely unless the Chinese attack either Australia or US forces first),they cannot expect the squeaky clean results as in Iraq.Besides China has a pretty solid network of allies-North Korea,Iran,Pakistan etc-who can throw the US off focus.
Sorry, mate, you just don't know what you're talking about.
Until a few years ago, I was involved in Australian military planning. While I can not and will not go into details, I can assure you that in the event of any conflict between China and Taiwan, Australia will almost certainly be involved on the side of Taiwan, unless Taiwan is insane and actually acts as the aggressor.
It's also a matter of public record now (after some people made successful FOI requests to get hold of the estimates) that Australia went to war in Iraq after our defence experts postulated a worst case scenario of up to 51 deaths per day among our forces, and around 240 deaths total among our land forces.
Put another way, Australia committed to war knowing that we could lose 3% of our forward deployed landbased troops +1% of our seaborne personnel, + 2% of other landbased personnel each and every day of the war.
Mercifully we've suffered no miltary deaths in Iraq, and only one in Afghanistan - but that doesn't mean Australia isn't prepared to risk its troops in war. We went into Iraq fully expecting high casualties if WMDs were deployed against us.
We don't expect squeaky clean results though we'll take them when they happen.
Yes, Australia has a One China policy. So does the United States, for that matter.
Australia also, for over twenty years supported the status quo with regards to Indonesias occupation of East Timor.
Yet, when push came to shove in 1999, and East Timor had its first real chance for independence, Australia risked going to war with a country that has ten times our population to make sure that independence became fact.
We don't provoke wars by carelessly throwing around threats, and we don't relish high body counts.
But if it's needed, we'll get the bloody job done.
It's one thing to make plans bout fighting someone,putting it into action is wholly a different thing.I stand by my statement as many nations including Aussie allies like Singapore & South Korea have openly stood with China over Taiwan.Heck Im not even sure what the US will do-they havent' done anything solid on Aegis equipped ships & 8 D/E subs for Taiwan.
PS-if you had a top secret designation ,you needn't say it out-this place seems full of retired spooks!!!!!!!!!Maybe i also was something,but can't remember due to amnesia.
Hang on - Aussie Allies like Singapore and South Korea?
Australia has no military alliances with either Singapore or South Korea.
We do have a training agreement with Singapore dating back to 1971 but that is about it.
Australia is not an ally of either South Korea or Singapore. We have friendly relations with both countries - but no military alliances.
And yes, quite a few countries have openly stood with China over Taiwan. That's utterly irrelevant to what Australia would do. We don't base our decisions on what Singapore and South Korea might or might not have done.
I was never a spook (of course if I was, would I say I was), but I did have to be informed about these types of issues.
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