Professors oppose Bush 'theology' -

PASADENA -- A group of Fuller Theological Seminary professors, saying they are responding to a "grave moral crisis' in America, are signing a statement opposing President Bush's alleged convergence of God, church and nation and what they call his "theology of war.' Glen Stassen, Fuller's Louis B. Smedes professor of Christian ethics, said Bush's religious rhetoric confuses the cause of Christianity with that of a nation at war.

For instance, in Bush's 2002 State of the Union address the president labeled Iran, Iraq and North Korea the "axis of evil,' Stassen said.

"Calling the three nations the 'axis of evil' and refusing to acknowledge any errors that he has made, that sets up a dichotomy between righteous United States and unrighteous 'axis of evil,' ' Stassen said. "... It leads to a crusade in which Christians think the Christian thing to do is support war-making against an allegedly unrighteous enemy.'

The statement of beliefs, called "Confessing Christ in a World of Violence,' criticizes Bush's use of scripture in a speech on the first anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Bush described the hope offered by America by saying, "... the light shines in the darkness. And the darkness will not overcome it.'

These words, used in the Bible, apply only to Jesus Christ and no political leader has the right to "twist them into the service of war,' the confession says.

The statement began circulating among the faculty Tuesday, Stassen said. Its assertions include the claim that Jesus Christ knows no national boundaries, that Christians should have a strong presumption against war and that Christians should exercise humility, which would temper political disagreements.

About 20 professors have signed it, though it has not made the full rounds at Fuller, Stassen said. Stassen expects that almost all of the seminary's 80 full-time professors will sign it. Fuller is the largest evangelical seminary in the country.

The current confession is not the first time Fuller professors have publicly objected to Bush. About 40 faculty members signed a September 2002 letter opposing Bush's statements about a unilateral pre-emptive war in Iraq. Bush is now campaigning on pre-emptive war and using Christian language in the process, Stassen said.

The Fuller educators are part of a national movement of theologians and ethicists who are signing the document. They are being organized by Stassen, George Hunsinger of Princeton Theological Seminary, Richard B. Hays of Duke Divinity School, Richard Pierard of Gordon College and Jim Wallis, editor of Sojourners magazine.

The same five leaders endorsed a recent ad campaign in the national media that proclaims, "God is Not a Republican. Or a Democrat.'

Dan Palm, political science chair at Azusa Pacific University, an evangelical Christian school, said the statement is not something he would sign. Palm said his primary critique of the statement is that it's a caricature of the Religious Right that seems designed to get politically liberal Christians out to vote.

Palm especially objected to a paragraph that suggested pastors are not preaching about teachings of Jesus such as "Love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you.'

"I think that's really a low, cheap shot,' Palm said. "I think there's room for honest disagreement among Christians for when the right time is for using military force.'

Mike Spence, president of the California Republican Assembly, a conservative political organization based in Monrovia, said the movement opposing Bush's religious rhetoric sounds like it has a left-wing agenda.

"It sounds like these Fuller professors are trying to use religion to their own political end,' he said.

Spence said that Bush's use of religious imagery is no different than any other president's.

Ronald Reagan's "City on a Hill' speech was clearly a biblically based vision for the future, he said.

Abraham Lincoln, Dwight Eisenhower and Bill Clinton also frequently used religious imagery, he said.

Richard Mouw, president of Fuller Seminary, said he won't sign the statement because he doesn't want to appear partisan. Mouw said he has critiques of both presidential candidates.

Mouw doesn't oppose Bush's claims that God favors freedom, but said "it's always dangerous for a nation to see itself as God's appointed agent in the world.'

Mouw, who opposed the war in Iraq, said he doesn't know Bush's intentions, but said his language resonates with evangelical Christians, some of whom consider him to be speaking for God.

There's a danger in the Christian community of people being uncritical in their endorsement of American interests, he said.

According to a recent study on religion and politics from the University of Akron, 68 percent of Americans want a president to have strong religious beliefs and 63 percent are comfortable when candidates discuss their faith.

Marshall Allen can be reached at (626) 578-6300, Ext. 4461, or by e-mail at marshall.allen@sgvn.com . For the the text of the theology letter click here

Oh I thought from what you said you were a student there. Sorry about the confusion.

Thankfully my uncle was never infected from this errency idea. A lot of Asian pastors in Asia were graduates from Fuller. While they are politically left-leaning, on all esential Christian matters and things like abortion and gay marriage they are solidly Christian (i.e. conservative). It is kind of like a James Dobson that suddenly goes liberal on defence or WOT, etc. One of the keys was probably they all became saved due to efforts of theologically orthodox Christians, and another factor was they all had their primary theological degrees from Asia's seminaries, which for the time being were still staffed by the "old guards".

Are you suggesting that adults who want to become Pastors and leaders in Church are generally better off "home-schooling," than studying with instructors at a Seminary?

What denominations accept 'homeschooled' seminary credentials in order to be hired as a pastor?

Actually, several denominations exist that do not require and "formal" school at all. Most of the worst ideas in Christian thought came from cemetaries...I mean seminaries.

Were the Apostles trained in Seminaries. How many of the early Christian leaders had formal "seminary" training.

I would rather sit under a pastor, who has studied the Word of God, relies on the Holy Spirit to help him understnad the word, and has lived it out.

Some seminaries still maintain the standard of the Word of God. That's wonderful. But many have left the truth.

Unfortunately, most seminary professors just offer you their interpretation of scripture or worst, warmed over reflections of someone else's view of scriptures. The Holy Spirit never fails, man often fails.

So the answer is yes. A home schooled pastor, who gets in the Word of God and experiences his presence is infinitely more desirable than someone with a seminary degree.

NzerFromHK,
Your commentaries on Fuller are fairly along the lines of the gossip I've heard
since moving to the Southern Cal. area.

Just out of curiousity, I do recall hearing some fairly outrageous quotes on theology from
a lady professor at Fuller...and I just can't remember her name.
Sorry I can't be more specific, but do you know her name...she sounded like
someone who'd get voted into The Jesus Forum...

If this doesn't ring a bell, I still thank you in advance.

You're making an argument against BAD seminary education vs. GOOD "understudy work" (a re-framing of "home-schooling")

If you re-frame the point in that way you may have a point. But while BAD seminary education exists, BAD home-schooling also exists, and BAD "understudy work" also exists. So your statement is interesting but is really not a fair argument.

My point is that a seminary education at a GOOD seminary is preferable to homeschooling IN GENERAL. There will certainly be exceptions to the rule.

My perspective is that while there are many good Pastors without formal education, there are also some of these men of God who are unable to handle and explain deeper theological issues.

A church is not solely a vehicle for evangelism and instruction to the newly saved, but a place where the family of believers can mature as Christians. And a Pastor's depth on the theology of Christianity is very valuable.

That's why I say _IN GENERAL_ a seminary education is a vital part of a Pastor's background and GENERALLY preferable to homeschooling.

My perspective is that while there are many good Pastors without formal education, there are also some of these men of God who are unable to handle and explain deeper theological issues.
A church is not solely a vehicle for evangelism and instruction to the newly saved, but a place where the family of believers can mature as Christians. And a Pastor's depth on the theology of Christianity is very valuable.

That's why I say _IN GENERAL_ a seminary education is a vital part of a Pastor's background and GENERALLY preferable to homeschooling

My Friend,

On that we'll have to agree to disagree. I have had both kinds of Pastors. I have seen the evidence of both kinds of ministries beyond the one's I've personally experienced.

The difference is not seminary. The difference is how much they study the Word of God and how the Spirit of God is at work in their lives. It's not about the mind, it's about the Spirit of God.

I don't really care what a person's education background is. If he or she is teaching, I want to know that they are solid in the Word of God and are following him.

I don't really care about explanations of deeper theological issues. Most of them have little bearing on a believer's every day life. But if it is something they need, God wants the believer to go to his word, to seek him out. God is quite capable of speaking truth to that individual.

It happens in my life on a regular basis. My faith says when I open God's word, when I meditate on it, when I ask him questions- he'll show me.

Regardless of our difference of opinions though, I respect yours and I know that many in the Church do find comfort in having someone who has a seminary education. If that's important to them, then I pray the Lord blesses them with a pastor with a great seminary educationa and a great heart for God.

Be Blessed in the name of Jesus

Yours in Christ,

John

I really think we are close to agreement if you and I could frame an issue in the same light.

You continue to add additional (but arguably relevant) conditions and factors into my simple generalized conclusion which makes your rebuttal actually to a different point than the one I made.

It's as if I said "GENERALLY white cars are cooler in temperature than black cars," and you are replying using factors such as window tinting and air conditioning. These are vaulable on the whole because they are all factors in the temperature of a car, but aren't rebuttals to my point.

So, I think we agree that a "good" pastor has many qualities and that some qualities are more important than educational background. I wasn't arguing that point.

My point essentially is that all other things being equal, it is preferable that a pastor that leads a congregation have theological training at a good school. I've had to add the "all other things being equal" because you are throwing additional variables my way to what was intended to be a simple point about the value of education and tutelage of other godly men.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on these issues, but we'll disagree amicably (and I'll let this be my last post on this subject).

Ok, I don't care if they are religious men, they are a#$wipes.

Being religious doesn't make one good, to be sure. Now, I am of the opinion that the world would be a better place and that everyone would benefit if they would go to church (a good church) every Sunday. But with that said, just because you go to church (or have a PhD in theology) doesn't make you a good guy. Case in point: some of the worst Jew-haters in the world are in a pew every Sunday morning in the Palestinian terrortories.

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