Posted on 10/09/2004 1:19:32 AM PDT by Utah Girl
People Just Like You ask President Bush and Senator Kerry questions and show up Gwen Ifill. A round-by-round scorecard.
Round 1: Kerry: Are you too wishy-washy?
Kerry waits until his first sentence to reference the Duelfer report, saying "the president didn't find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, so he's turned his campaign into a weapon of mass deception." Bush goes back to the Howard Dean well, saying Kerry changed his mind on the nature of Saddam's threat because of the Vermont governor. Zephyr Teachout always said Dean would be a factor in October 2004.
Round to Kerry
Round 2: Bush: Saddam didn't have WMDs, why invade Iraq and not North Korea?
Bush says that Kerry agreed with him on Iraq, that he went to the United Nations, and that Saddam was already gaming the U.N. Oil for Food program. It's a fair listing of the litany. "We all thought there was weapons, my opponent thought there was weapons," he concludes. Jacob Weisberg smiles at his keyboard. For his part, Kerry says, "I've never changed my mind about Iraq." Then he mentions Duelfer, this time by name, explaining that Duelfer means the sanctions on Saddam worked. Which, strictly speaking, isn't quite true; but never mind.
Round to Bush
Round 3: Kerry: Will you follow Bush's plans in Iraq?
Kerry says there's "chaos" in Iraq and hangs Chuck Hagel and Dick Lugar's criticisms on the president. And then goes back to the need for more allies. Working himself into a lather, Bush says, "We're going to solve the problem in Iraq by holding a summit. And what is he going to say to those people who show up at that summit? Join me in the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place?"
Kerry counters that "The right war was Osama bin Laden . . . the right place was Tora Bora." And Bush lets go a good one: "It's a fundamental misunderstanding to say that the war on terror is only Osama bin Laden. . . . Of course we're going to find Osama bin Laden. We've already got 75 percent of his people. And we're on the hunt for him. But this is a global conflict."
Round to Bush
Round 4: Bush: What is your plan to repair international relations?
"We've got a great country," the president says. "I love our values." Okay. Then he mentions how unpopular America and Reagan were in Europe during the Cold War: "I don't think you want a president who tries to become popular and does the wrong thing." Kerry brings up the 2000 debate, which plays into the idea that the Democrats are the September 10 party; this seems a tactical mistake.
Round to Bush
Round 5: Kerry what will you do with Iran?
Kerry: "We will get tough!" Bush jokes that "That answer almost made me want to scowl." Bush spends this round arguing that Kerry would do what he's already doing, only worse. Somehow. He's probably right.
Round to Bush
Round 6: Bush: How will you avoid bringing back the draft?
"I hear there's rumors on the internet," Bush says, about bringing back the draft. Nah gonna do it; "period." He talks fairly coherently about transformation of forces and even a few specifics about unmanned surveillance and the transfer of troops. Kerry's response is: Yeah, well I have a lot of generals who endorse me. He says he's going to do a foreign policy that does "what Reagan did."
At the end of his rebuttal Kerry mentions that America is going it alone and Bush practically jumps out of his seat and begins talking over Charlie Gibson. "You tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Tony Blair we're going alone," he shouts. "Tell Silvio Berlusconi we're going alone. Tell Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland we're going alone. We've got 30 countries there. It denigrates an alliance to say we're going alone." Kerry responds that it's "not a grand coalition." Which sort of proves Bush's point.
Round to Bush
Round 7: Kerry: Why haven't there been more domestic terrorist attacks in the last three years?
Kerry says that Bush says it's not a question of if, but when. Then, in what seems like an enormous slip, he waves his hand and says, "between the World Trade Center bombing in, what was it--1993 or so?--and the next time was five years, seven years." These are only the most important events in America in the last two decades. He's unsure of the dates, and worse, his tone is so off-hand that it's like he's talking about campaign-finance reform. Bush gets in another zinger: "My opponent's right--we need good intelligence. It's also a curious thing for him to say since right after 1993 he voted to cut the intelligence budget by $7.5 billion dollars."
Round to Bush
Round 8: Bush: Why did you drop the importation of drugs from Canada?
Bush says he wants to make sure the drugs are safe. "He's been in the United States Senate for 20 years," Bush says disparagingly of Kerry. "Show me one accomplishment towards Medicare. That he accomplished." Trying to oblige, Kerry says that in 1997, we fixed Medicare--and balanced the budget. Unlike Al Gore, he's not afraid to run on Bill Clinton's record.
Round to Kerry
Round 9: Kerry: How can you want tort reform with John Edwards as your VP?
"John Edwards and I support tort reform," Kerry says. He then explains that medical malpractice lawsuits aren't a big deal and really don't contribute to rising healthcare costs. True? Maybe. But the middle of a presidential campaign is no time to defend trial lawyers. Maybe this is the ABA's pound of flesh for Edwards's betrayal on Tuesday night. Bush tries to brand Kerry with the L-word. "That's what liberals do. They create government sponsored healthcare. Maybe you think that makes sense. I don't. . . . You're now for capping punitive damages? That's odd. You should have showed up on the floor of the Senate and voted for it, then."
Round to Bush
Round 10: Bush: Will you keep spending like a drunken sailor?
Bush says that the dot.com bubble popped before he got here, and now we're in a war, and the deficit isn't his fault. Kerry is still trying to convince the audience that he's not proposing HillaryCare. He's completely on the defensive. This is a squeaker, because let's be honest: Neither one of these guys is going to even pretend to be responsible once they're president.
Round to Kerry
Round 11: Kerry: Will you pinky swear that you're really, really, really not going to raise taxes on families making less than $200K?
Kerry: "Yes!" Bush: "It's just not credible. . . . Of course he's going to raise your taxes." The gist of Bush's argument seems to be, John Kerry will raise your taxes; I'll just keep ballooning the deficit.
Round to Kerry
Round 12: Bush: How do you rate yourself as an environmentalist?
The president says, roughly, Blah blah blah, diesel engines. . . . Blah blah blah wetlands. But at least he names a bunch of actual programs. Kerry says, "The president, I don't think, is living in a world of reality, with respect to the environment. Now, if you're a Red Sox fan that's okay. But if you're a president, it's not." Yeah, umm, what he said.
Bush says Kerry would have signed Kyoto to be popular "in the halls of Europe," even though it would have cost American jobs. Kerry answers, "I was in Kyoto." Yes! And it is seared--seared!--in his memory.
Round to Bush
Round 13: Kerry: How can the United States remain competitive in manufacturing?
You're poised, you're waiting for it, but John Kerry refuses to trot out Benedict Arnold corporations. Benedict Arnold is dead, long live the traitor. Instead, Kerry worries that "China and India are graduating more graduates in technology and science than we are." Which may have something to do with the fact that China and India have, between then, about 2.35 billion more people than the United States does.
On a tangent about small businesses, Kerry mentions that Bush gets income from a timber company he partially owns. "I own a timber company?" Bush replies. "That's news to me. Need some wood?" I suspect he'll regret this bon mot.
Round to Kerry
Round 14: Bush: Mr. President, the Patriot Act is evil. Why are my rights being watered down?
Anyone who follows the Patriot Act with even the smallest bit of due diligence understands that this is all blowing smoke. Bush does not clear the air or mount the sensible defense with any intellectual force. For his part, Kerry demagogues the Patriot Act quite effectively, before concluding, "I believe in the Patriot Act!"
Round to Kerry
Round 15: Kerry: Why are you for embryonic stem cell research when adult and umbilical-cord stem cells have proven so promising?
Kerry responds, like every good Democrat must, by mentioning the Afflicted Famous People who are Close Personal Friends of his. And besides, he adds, these embryos "weren't taken from abortion or something like that."
To the surprise of nearly all concerned, Bush is thoughtful, and very nearly eloquent in response: "To destroy life to save life is one of the real ethical dilemmas that we face." He explains how he split the difference on embryonic stem cells using lines already in existence.
Round to Bush
Round 16: Bush: Who would you appoint to the Supreme Court?
Bush, says, "I'm not tellin'." Then he goes into Dred Scott. This president should, perhaps, stay away from judicial history. Also, it wouldn't hurt to have mentioned the Massachusetts Supreme Court.
Round to Kerry
Round 17: Kerry: Will you spend tax dollars on abortion?
"I'm a Catholic," Kerry says. But while he can't legislate his beliefs, he can work to counsel people to other choices. "You can take that position and not be pro-abortion." Which is certainly true.
Mind you, John Kerry doesn't take that position. He is, objectively speaking, pro-abortion. He has sweatily wooed America's abortion lobby, including the aptly-named National Abortion Rights Action League. As their name suggests, these people are--again, objectively speaking--pro-abortion. At one NARAL dinner during the primaries, Kerry boasted, "If I get to share a stage with this president and debate him, one of the first things I'll tell him is: 'There's a defining issue between us. I trust women to make their own decisions. You don't.'" Tough talk. Tonight, standing in front of an audience not composed of those soulfully committed to the practice of abortion, Kerry is not so tough. Still, I bet those swell NARAL girls will find it in their velveteen hearts to forgive him.
Seizing on Kerry's tightrope act, Bush wryly notes that he's "trying to decipher" his statement. He explains that Kerry voted against partial-birth abortion and parental notification, not to mention the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.
Round to Bush
Round 18: Bush: Name three wrong decisions you've made.
This question is killing President Bush because clearly, he doesn't think he's done anything wrong. He allows that he might have made a mistake or two about "meetings." Then he names three decisions he made right. Finally, he manages some cold-eyed introspection: "You want to know what mistakes, I made some mistakes in appointing people, but I'm not gonna name them. Don't wanna hurt their feelings on national TV." This is a deeply revealing window into Bush's mind. It isn't very appealing. At all.
Kerry says that Saddam would "not necessarily be in power" had he been president for the last four years. Boy, does he want to lose this round. He doesn't.
Round to Kerry
THIS JUDGE scores the debate to Bush on points: 10 to 8. The president was aggressive and engaged, which is a minimal threshold, to be sure, but hey, Republicans will take what they can get. The connection of Howard Dean to Kerry continues to be effective, as does the line of attack about Kerry's disparagement of our allies. One question, though: Exactly when does Bush plan to bring up Kerry's 1991 vote against Dessert Storm?
For his part, Kerry was pretty smooth and continues to look and feel presidential. He was effective in putting to rest questions about raising taxes for families under the $200K mark. If Bush ever gets all of his ducks in row on Iraq, Kerry could be in trouble, since he continues to be vulnerable on questions ranging from his change of opinion on Saddam to the "global test."
One last note. Whenever he speaks of the terrorists, Kerry talks about how he wants to "hunt down and kill" them. Bush talks about "bringing them to justice." Imagine what people would say if these linguistic ticks were reversed.
Dessert Storm?
Based on what I saw, I would give it to Bush 14-4 for content and the nod for overall style. Kerry seemed phoney in many of his answers - whining that he isn't a liberal, when everyone knows he is.
Suspect it fired up the Republican base (whose disappointment in the first debate drove the lower Republican responses in the polls and thus drove down Bush's numbers). Suspect Kerry is unchanged with his base, or perhaps lost a little steam.
I don't believe anyone who is still undecided will actually vote. I'm guessing Bush will be up by 5-7 points by the middle of next week.
I disagree. It was a funny comment.
I agree with your assessment. When President Bush wins the next debate, that should keep the momentum on his side until election day.
Three weeks is an awfully long time in politic time though.
Yep, sanctions don't work very well at all. North Korea is another example. The people are eating grass while their Beloved Leader flies in chefs from around the world to fix him pizza.
Interesting assessment round by round. I like it, though I would have scored it more like 16-2.
Anybody that didn't like the "Need some wood" remark just doesn't have a sense of humor!
I have to seriously disgree with his last assessment.
The question was a plant, designed to produce fodder for anti-Bush ads.
Yes, it is good for people to admit their mistakes as a general rule. At a debate for the office of the presidency it is not.
You'll note Kerry didn't rush to admit a bunch of mistakes either...
I'm annoyed the media hasn't pressed Kerry to apologize for making up stories about the soldiers in Vietnam. Yeah, that was a long time ago, but that wasn't just some typical youthful mistake. It demonstrated something about his character, and it was a significant piece of how he started his political career. I don't understand how anybody can ignore it, when as far as we know maybe he still thinks he was right.
Let's just hope Kerry doesn't feel his manhood was threatened. I don't want to see another airbrushed magazine cover.
The audience member asked that last insulting question, but let's not forget that the liberal Gibson chose it. It was clearly intended to put Bush on the defensive. Bush's response was to say, in effect, "I'm not dumb enough to fall for your obvious trap." He made that explicit when he said that the question was obviously intended to get him to admit failure on Iraq. He basically told everyone in the audience, in case they did not know it, that the question was cheap and hostile. Round to Bush.
" He (Bush) allows that he might have made a mistake or two about "meetings."
In that quote Bush said "appointments", not "meetings." I too was a little confused until he later talked about his appointments of people to government positions. See, even clever journalists can make mistakes.
Honestly, when I heard how this debate was going to work, I really expected that there would be a rabid protester planted in there somewhere. I expected that at some point in the debate, they'd hand the microphone to somebody who would go ballistic at Bush for a few moments before being cut off. I guess there's still hope for humanity after all.
Round 10: Bush: Will you keep spending like a drunken sailor? Bush says that the dot.com bubble popped before he got here, and now we're in a war, and the deficit isn't his fault. Kerry is still trying to convince the audience that he's not proposing HillaryCare. He's completely on the defensive. This is a squeaker, because let's be honest: Neither one of these guys is going to even pretend to be responsible once they're president. Round to Kerry
Bush is not responsible his economic policies were not even implemented yet and Kerry had no real response
Round 11: Kerry: Will you pinky swear that you're really, really, really not going to raise taxes on families making less than $200K? Kerry: "Yes!" Bush: "It's just not credible. . . . Of course he's going to raise your taxes." The gist of Bush's argument seems to be, John Kerry will raise your taxes; I'll just keep ballooning the deficit. Round to Kerry
Bush nailed him on raising taxes 98 times
Round 16: Bush: Who would you appoint to the Supreme Court? Bush, says, "I'm not tellin'." Then he goes into Dred Scott. This president should, perhaps, stay away from judicial history. Also, it wouldn't hurt to have mentioned the Massachusetts Supreme Court. Round to Kerry
Bush explained he wanted Judges who uphold the constitution and don't legislate from the bench. Kerry went into some goobligook about not being able tell if a judge is a liberal or conservative.
Round 18: Bush: Name three wrong decisions you've made. This question is killing President Bush because clearly, he doesn't think he's done anything wrong. He allows that he might have made a mistake or two about "meetings." Then he names three decisions he made right. Finally, he manages some cold-eyed introspection: "You want to know what mistakes, I made some mistakes in appointing people, but I'm not gonna name them. Don't wanna hurt their feelings on national TV." This is a deeply revealing window into Bush's mind. It isn't very appealing. At all. Kerry says that Saddam would "not necessarily be in power" had he been president for the last four years. Boy, does he want to lose this round. He doesn't. Round to Kerry
Bush nailed it when he pegged the question as a coercion to get him to admit Iraq was a mistake.
Round 10 "Will you keep spending like a drunken sailor?" Our family has a long history as sailors in the U.S. Navy, including present active duty. Every dime spent on the military is worth whatever spending is necessary to keep us safe. Besides, why do people always pick on sailors?
Yeah he did. And he made those of us watching want to stand up and yell like we were watching WWF or something.
"Dessert Storm?"
That's what you get when a tornado hits a Dunkin Donuts.
It ain't pretty...;)
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