Posted on 10/08/2004 8:36:12 PM PDT by diabolicNYC
8:38PM CST
The first report from St. Louis is in - and presidential candidates Michael Badnarik (Libertarian) and David Cobb (Green Party) were just arrested. Badnarik was carrying an Order to Show Cause, which he intended to serve the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD). Earlier today, Libertarians attempted to serve these same papers at the Washington, D.C. headquarters of the CPD - but were stopped from approaching the CPD office by security guards.
Fred Collins reported to me from the ground that Badnarik and Cobb are in great physical condition and great spirit.
As soon as more details are available, they will be posted here immediately.
The little potato-head socialist running around spray-painting red A's all over the place bear as much resemblance to self-government "anarchists" as a fork does to a particle accelerator. IE; none at all.
But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.
Now in the world of Libertarianism where morals are not set and change from one person to the next, and refuse to think about the greater societal good only their wants (example the drug issue) who knows how long it would take for the society to get to that point. At some point in the future it could lead that far down the path to anarchy. That is until society has gone to far and a police state must step in to protect the weaker and emplace morals again.
Without our Christian founders we would not be enjoying freedoms and be such a unique country in this world. When we loose our Christian foundations and morals we will loose our freedoms as for-told by our founding fathers.
They were sure at some point as in most societies we would loose our Christianity and our freedoms. Looks like they were very far seeing.
The greater sociatal good? The communists claim to be acting for the "Greater Good" as well. Does this mean that Christianity is communist? If so, give me my heathan beliefs any day.
If there were no laws saying you must be clothed in public, would you suddenly start running around naked? Me neither. Anarchy is absence of government. Not absence of people governing themselves. It would require people to take a lot more responsibility for their actions. To not run around saying "the Devil made me do it!!!" or to try and foist your own inadaquacies on others.
Our Founders set up a system with a LOT more freedom built in to it than it appears you are prepared to advocate for your fellow man.
To Francis Hopkinson, Paris, Mar. 13, 1789
Get over it.
Our founding fathers set up a system of laws based on the Bible, that set limits for how far a society can go and within those laws for the greater good. You have a large amount of freedom in which to move within those laws, but there are set limits that keep us from anarchy. You are right in thinking that our founding fathers gave us much freedom, but there were limits, something that a libertarian does not recognize in their need to take their "freedoms"(which lead to slavery not freedom) ever farther. It will never be enough for him.
He knows that the things he wants are not good but still thinks he needs them to be truly free. He also knows that the things he wants will cause harm to many, but it does not matter as long as he gets the choice to do it. It is after all his decision if he wants to ruin his life.
He will never recognize that there is any limits out there that are good enough reason that society as a whole should deem wrong and he be denied. Because society has deemed a thing wrong the in long run it was to protect it from great damage and to keep it remaining whole... but the libertarian thinks, who care how many lives are damaged or lost as long as he gets do what he wants. And when he becomes one more burden on society because of the choices he made well so be it was his choice that caused his ruin. But at some point society can not handle all of its burdens made by people who can not control their urges and it falls. Just like the founders for-saw.
Libertarianism is a form of selfishness. While selfishness is found all over, in government form it is a killer.
I have received, dear Madam, your very friendly letter of July 21st, and assure you that I feel with deep sensibility its kind expressions towards myself, and the more as from a person than whom no others could be more in sympathy with my own affections. I often call to mind the occasions of knowing your worth, which the societies of Washington furnished; and none more than those derived from your much valued visit to Monticello. recognize the same motives of goodness in the solicitude you express on the rumor supposed to proceed from a letter of mine to Charles Thomson, on the subject of the Christian religion.
It is true that, in writing to the translator of the Bible and Testament, that subject was mentioned; but equally so that no adherence to any particular mode of Christianity was there expressed, nor any change of opinions suggested. A change from what? the priests indeed have heretofore thought proper to ascribe to me religious, or rather anti-religious sentiments, of their own fabric, but such as soothed their resentments against the act of Virginia for establishing religious freedom. They wished him to be thought atheist, deist, or devil, who could advocate freedom from their religious dictations. But I have ever thought religion a concern purely between our God and our consciences, for which we were accountable to him, and not to the priests. I never told my own religion, nor scrutinized that of another. I never attempted to make a convert, nor wished to change another's creed. I have ever judged of the religion of others by their lives, and by this test, my dear Madam, I have been satisfied yours must be an excellent one, to have produced a life of such exemplary virtue and correctness. For it is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read. By the same test the world must judge me. But this does not satisfy the priesthood. They must have a positive, a declared assent to all their interested absurdities. My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there. These, therefore, they brand with such nick-names as their enmity chooses gratuitously to impute. I have left the world, in silence, to judge of causes from their effects; and I am consoled in this course, my dear friend, when I perceive the candor with which I am judged by your justice and discernment; and that, notwithstanding the slanders of the saints, my fellow citizens have thought me worthy of trusts. The imputations of irreligion having spent their force; they think an imputation of change might now be turned to account as a holster for their duperies. I shall leave them, as heretofore, to grope on in the dark.
Our family at Monticello is all in good health; Ellen speaking of you with affection, and Mrs. Randolph always regretting the accident which so far deprived her of the happiness of your former visit. She still cherishes the hope of some future renewal of that kindness; in which we all join her, as in the assurances of affectionate attachment and respect.
LOL! Just what I expect from a Libertarian.
Try taking a deeper look at the faith of our founders and how it played a role in founding the most unique and free country in the world.....or stick you head in the sand and not truly understand what they had in mind like most libertarians. That is why they are such a joke to most Conservatives.
Besides if I wanted a fiscal conservative with out the morals there are plenty of Rinos out there that fit that bill. But I do not vote for them either.
And yes, I am aware you are a joke.
Yes, France had such a wonderful effect on Jefferson. Do you understand how he changed after his trip to France.
BTW, Jefferson had nothing to do with the founding of our nation, he was in France being enlightened.
Par for the course for a libertarian. Why is it that they can not discuss without crying or name calling? Maybe their arguments are not very deep.
There are many more examples. Should I continue?
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
-John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson
Need I get into some Thomas Paine quotes? The Founders were no where near as heterogeneous in their religious beliefs as you would paint them to be to fit your own personal bias.
If your arguments had merit, thought, or depth, such would not be in my mind deemed necessary.
As the contempt of the religion of a country by ridiculing any of its ceremonies, or affronting its ministers or votaries, has ever been deeply resented, you are to be particularly careful to restrain every officer from such imprudence and folly, and to punish every instance of it. On the other hand, as far as lies in your power, you are to protect and support the free exercise of religion of the country, and the undisturbed enjoyment of the rights of conscience in religious matters, with your utmost influence and authority.
George Washington, to Benedict Arnold, September 14, 1775 from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover
John Adams:
“The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity…I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and the attributes of God.”
[June 28, 1813; Letter to Thomas Jefferson]
“We recognize no Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!”
[April 18, 1775, on the eve of the Revolutionary War after a British major ordered John Adams, John Hancock, and those with them to disperse in “the name of George the Sovereign King of England." ]
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
[letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress]
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Paine. Age of Reason.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.