Posted on 10/08/2004 8:36:12 PM PDT by diabolicNYC
8:38PM CST
The first report from St. Louis is in - and presidential candidates Michael Badnarik (Libertarian) and David Cobb (Green Party) were just arrested. Badnarik was carrying an Order to Show Cause, which he intended to serve the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD). Earlier today, Libertarians attempted to serve these same papers at the Washington, D.C. headquarters of the CPD - but were stopped from approaching the CPD office by security guards.
Fred Collins reported to me from the ground that Badnarik and Cobb are in great physical condition and great spirit.
As soon as more details are available, they will be posted here immediately.
I imagine it would be a rather ... er... exciting time for a bit should we ever regain the full protection for our Second Amendment Rights. Exciting at least for criminals who's livelyhoods would be put in dire jeapordy. I still find it hard t ocredit that there are "conservatives" who see this as a bad thing.
This is still confusing. The state says you reach adulthood, say at 21. Does this mean that a parent can still deny the child certain behaviors even when he is older than 21?
You have a child. That child does not have full usage of their intellectual faculties, nor enough life experience to make certain judgements and fully utitilize their Rights. You as the parent are holding those "Rights" in trust until such time as the child is considered an adult and able to use those Rights for themselves.
If your State sets that Age of Majority at 21, then that child does not have full usage of those Rights, on their own without YOUR permission, until such an age. Therefore, YOU could buy your child a beer at a ballgame, but the child itself could not. Any resultant behavior or damage to others from your having your child running around drunk falls directly on your shoulders FIRST.
Is that clearer now?
If the parent cedes the Right to make such a determination by allowing the State to set that age... then no. The parent could not deny such behaviors above said age. Unless of course the newly minted "adult" progeny entered freely into a contractual obligation with their parent. That is a completely different conversation.
Yes. The parent may override the state mandated Age of Majority. Would that apply for voting and driving licenses? Assuming we would even have DL's.
No. The parent is RESPONSIBLE for any actions of their ward until said ward can be responsible for themselves. It has nothing to do with "overriding" anything. These Rights don't come from the State. None of your Rights do. Voting ages are set in the Constitution which makes that a null issue.
As for drivers licenses. That should be between you and your insurance company. Not between a free people and their Nanny State.
If an exception is made for parents, then that exception is over-riding to the general legislation making it illegal for a minor to obtain or to provide a certain substance to a minor.
Voting ages are set in the Constitution which makes that a null issue.
Not in the case of state or local elections.
As for drivers licenses. That should be between you and your insurance company. Not between a free people and their Nanny State.
If a cop sees a five yo driving down the street drinking a beer, does he have the legal right to pull him over?
Who knows what it will take to restore this shadow of a country that we've become. Maybe it will take third parties (and I came down harsh on third parties earlier, but only because of what's at stake here and now - if this was 2008 I would have no problem supporting a third party).
No it doesn't. Not in a sane society with just laws. Oh, you are correct enough in your interpretation of our current legal system. A parent allowing their child to have glass of wine at Thanksgiving can be tried under todays child endangerment statutes. This, however, is not the gist of the current discussion.
Not in the case of state or local elections.
Your State imposes no age restrictions on its office holder the way the Federal Constitution does? Good for you. More more free that way. However, would you vote for a 12 year old for District Judge? I wouldn't. Self correcting problem there. NO extra legislation required.
If a cop sees a five yo driving down the street drinking a beer, does he have the legal right to pull him over?
Depends. If his parent with him? Have they hit anything? Damaged anyone? What a rare and precious child that they could even see over the steering wheel much less have the mental wherewithal to start a car. Your argument is no more valid because of its absurdity. That is ever a losing debate technique. My father started my driving lessons when I was 12. Should my father have been thrown in jail for such audacity?
Just damn....
No absurdity at all. I was driving my father's jeep before I was five. He would start it, put it in double-low, let out the clutch and away I went. When I was eight, my father would send me back for the car (automatic) to come pick him up while we were hunting.
Just trying to interpret you. In your scenario, the state could make it illegal for a minor to obtain liquor or someone to provide it to him except in one over-riding instance, when the person providing the liquor is his parent?
One leads to anarchy the other to communism and with both a society can not remain free and intact.
You are jumping. We are not talking about what exists (except for the constitution), but what you desire. States are free to mandate age restrictions on certain activites unless the parent over-rides that restriction by providing access to the minor, as in the case of liquor. If the parent decides that his minor, age 12, has a sound foundation in politics and desires to allow him to vote, even though the state sets an ange limit of 18, would the parent be able to over-ride the states restriction?
There are several ways that anarchy can come about, but anarchy is the step before communism/dictatorship.
It is the desire of the socialists in our country to create anarchy such that they can step in with a communist/dictatorship type of government. In the case of the socialists, anarchy would result from the total chaos of a true democracy with no formal leadership or regimented form of government.
—Patrick Henry
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have removed their only firm basis: a conviction in the minds of men that these liberties are the gift of God?”
—Thomas Jefferson
“We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us ... to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.”
—James Madison
Just to get you started, but one thing needed to keep us free are a self governing moral people, otherwise the government must at some point step in to stop the populace from preying on each other, anarchy. Either direction you take socialism/communism or libertarianism requires the intervention of government at some point one just earlier than the other.....no thank you
In the above scenario, as you put it, the State could make it illegal for a minor to purchase it. Yes. However, if their parent/legal guardian were to purchase it for them, that that would be just fine. Just like firearms. My father bought me my first .22 long before the State deemed me "legal" to do so.
The slow slide of socialism can lead to communism without anarchy. Anarchy can be the step that leads to communism and comes about by the lack of morals just as libertarianism without the foundation of morals will lead to a population that preys on each other...The fall of the Roman Empire.
Is it still a moral choice on your part if someone puts a gun to your head and says "or else"? Not in any ones world but your twisted little fantasy world.
You said it yourself, "self governing". One must start by governing ones self FIRST, not abdicating that responsibility to the State.
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