House About to Strip More Civil Liberties in Name of Anti-terrorism

The NewStandard ^ | 10-7-2004 | Madeleine Baran

[freeeee]

So, how's it going to pass this time?

With two copies available to all of the Politburo er, I mean Congress?
At midnight just before Congress recesses?
With little or no time for debate or public comment?
Attached to an omnibus "must pass" bill?
In a moment of panic after some incident?
In another name if it can't pass this time?

All of the above?

[glock rocks]

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

- Thomas Jefferson.

[Servant of the 9]

The House bill would also expand the definition of "providing material support" for terrorists and make it a federal crime for any US citizen to receive "military-type training" from a group designated as a terrorist organization by the US government.....The provision would apply to everyone who receives such training, regardless of whether they ever act on the training or renounce their allegiance to the group.

Anyone want to guess how long it will take the next Dimocrat elected President to declare FreeRepublic a terrorist organization?

Then if you teach your kid to shoot or hunt, you are a felon.

Do whatever is needed to foreigners, but some of this stuff aplying to citizens is going to change us into subjects.

So9

[snooker]

Yeah, I know that. The ACLU must have to wear a breathing mask.

All you hear is all these weenies whining about the patriot act is gonna do this, and that, when there are plenty of crimes that already encompass those things. Is the mob more of a threat than mass murders? I think not.

The whole open borders thing is to stuff the US ballot box so dims get elected forever. Not too subtle is it.

These people are full of it's.

[Publius6961]

If no distinction is made between non-citizens and citizens, or between legal and illegal residents, "civil rights" are essentially meaningless.

Nobody has them (if not assaulted by the government, violated by the foreign criminals).

So what is there to lose?

[kddid]

I wonder how many people here think the government wants to watch them. I'm sure the unlimited resources of the U.S. Government will be used to spy on each and every person in the U.S.A., especially if you are not doing anything wrong.

[rennatdm]

It's not the info. gathered on me that i worry about... it's who possesses it... ( i.e.- the klintonistas) It's the same as them trying to take our guns away... only the law abiding citizen is held accountable

[freeeee]

Are there today Islamofascists willing to blow up our buildings? If "yes" then LESS CIVIL LIBERTIES FOR YOU!

Perhaps you could describe under what circumstances this might happen and the WoT will be declared over?

[MineralMan]

""The House bill would also expand the definition of "providing material support" for terrorists and make it a federal crime for any US citizen to receive "military-type training" from a group designated as a terrorist organization by the US government. "

You ask what the problem might be with this. Well, you may notice that all that is required is that the US government designate a group as a "terrorist organization." Not the Congress. Just the "government."

Now, put in power a party you don't like and use your imagination. What organizations do you belong to? Can you see any point where one of them might be so designated by a party you disagree with?

That's the problem.

[b4its2late]

I'll have to read this later, knowing ahead of time the ACLU, who fights for legal rights for international terrorists, is against it.

[Chemist_Geek]

I'd have to read the whole bill to be certain, but based solely on that excerpt I'm concerned.

Example: "The House bill would ... make it a federal crime for any US citizen to receive "military-type training" from a group designated as a terrorist organization by the US government." Okay. What's that training? "'Military-type training' is defined as training 'in means or methods that can cause death or serious bodily injury, ... or training on the use, storage, production, or assembly of any explosive, firearm or other weapon..." Focus on the highlighted text. So, hypothetically, if President Hillary Clinton designates the NRA as a terrorist organization, then I as a NRA Certified Instructor and my students could be jailed for having a Basic Pistol class.

[Publius6961]

." The provision would apply to everyone who receives such training, regardless of whether they ever act on the training or renounce their allegiance to the group.

I've never been a great fan of the concept that I can't touch a killer until he has actually killed me or a member of my family...

[gunnedah]

Has America been dumbed down this much. This is another Democrat ploy and we must remember Clinton,Reno and the Democrats didnt need the Patriot Act to murder 80 Americans on American soil and now they are screaming and hollering about Civil Rights.

[CORedneck]

Hopefully, this bill (HR10) and the one passed by the Senate has so many differences, it eventually dies. I am a conservative but the leadership is hell bent to pass this without considering the ramifications. I hope the Senate tells the House to s***can that bill. Some of it is intrusive like the drivers license provisions. The Federal Gov't has no business dictating to the states how to run their licensing such as their point system and out-of-state tickets through the Driver License Agreement.

In fact, while I am on my soap box, Congress is in session too #$^& long ! Just like most states legislatures, Congress should be only allowed to meet 3 months of the year and the other 9 months, they are at home working a regular job. They should have adjourned on Oct 1.

[GrandEagle]

Portions of this bill should be terrifying to any thinking American. Unfortunately there are many who, instead of thinking, blindly follow whichever camp they decide to be in.
Since the beginning of time there has never been any government that had unrestrained power, who did not end up being evil. Those who fail to study history are destined to repeat it - and then wonder "How did we get in this shape?"

[Ramonan]

Where is the BS Meter on this one?

[mountaineer]

I will not surrender my freedom in the name of security, because without the former, the latter does not exist, but I will say this: consider the source.

Civil liberties and immigrant rights advocates say ...

What does that mean? These so-called advocates could represent the most extreme of Marxist or other nutball groups. They even could represent pro-Islamic terror groups. Until I'm satisfied this comes from a legitimate source, I'll take these dire warnings with a grain of salt.

[Chemist_Geek]

What happens when a future dem president defines "military type training" being taught how to shoot any firearm?

I think it's already in there - training in the use of firearms is included.

[rennatdm]

it is the criminals who need policing

[glock rocks]

All of the above?

• By voice vote?