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California proposal would laser-brand id number on bullets
World News [New Zealand] ^ | 8 October 2004 | staff

Posted on 10/07/2004 1:01:05 PM PDT by 45Auto

California's attorney general wants to crack down on gun violence by laser-branding all handgun bullets sold in the state with tiny identification numbers nearly invisible to the naked eye.

The controversial proposal could open the way for the next major debate over gun control in California, a state that already has some of the toughest such laws in the United States.

Attorney General Bill Lockyer is expected to discuss his proposal at a meeting on gun crime today with Los Angeles Mayor Jim Hahn and a citizens group, an aide said yesterday.

Under the plan, all ammunition sold in California would have a serial number etched by laser on the bullet and casing. Bullets without such micro-markings, including those from outside the state, would be barred by law, with some exceptions for sport shooters who make their own ammunition.

No other US state requires microscopic identification numbers to be etched on bullets, although similar technology is used to brand aeroplane and auto parts, backers of the proposal said.

"We think this is a very valid idea that could solve crimes quickly," said Hallye Jordan, a spokeswoman for Lockyer, one of the state's leading Democrats.

"It's something that the cops going to a crime scene involving shooting victims, once they recover the spent cartridge or bullets they can look at it right there," she said. "We have a database where they can put the number right in and then drive to the person's house whose bullets they were."

Paul Curry, a lobbyist for Ammunition Coding System, a Washington-state based firm that developed the bullet etching system, said the requirement would add about 1 cent to the cost of each bullet sold.

Ammunition manufacturers have so far resisted the technology, but he predicted that they would "race to see who can be first to market" if California mandated them to license ACS' technology.

Political consultant Chris Lehane said Democrats who control California's legislature would likely be receptive to the proposal when they resume session in January.

"I think given the politics of the state it makes a lot of sense," Lehane said.

Gun rights advocates pledged to fight the proposal, saying it would be easy for gang members and criminals to find unmarked ammunition and create a costly state bureaucracy.

California's Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger angered gun-rights advocates when he signed a bill last month banning the powerful .50 calibre rifles used by military snipers.

A spokesman for the governor could not be reached immediately for comment on Lockyer's proposal.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: California
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; bullets; etching; guns; laser; morons
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To: 45Auto

another headline to use:
"backdoor ammo tax coming to Kalifornia"...


21 posted on 10/07/2004 1:22:24 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (Justice of the Piece:If Marx is your hero, Kerry is your candidate.)
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To: 45Auto
California's attorney general wants to crack down on gun violence....

... a state that already has some of the toughest such laws in the United States.

But this can't be. If they already have tough gun control laws, then (glub, glub) how can they have so much gun violence?

They need more tough laws which should alleviate the problem.

22 posted on 10/07/2004 1:27:42 PM PDT by ServesURight (Tim Michels for U.S. Senate Wisconsin)
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To: 45Auto

This is absolutely sickening. I hope Mount St. Helens spew some volcanic ash towards Sacramento.


23 posted on 10/07/2004 1:31:21 PM PDT by 12 Gauge Mossberg (I Approved This Posting - Paid For By Mossberg, Inc.)
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To: RKV

"It seems these guys have never heard of an intertial bullet puller. For the price of a $20 tool you can put a new lead bullet in your case."

You would also need a press and a set of dies, and you have to buy new bullets (also marked?). It is also a pain in the azz.
No one will do this unless they plan to commit a crime.


24 posted on 10/07/2004 1:44:19 PM PDT by BadAndy (Specializing in unnecessarily harsh comments.)
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To: 45Auto

Be sure you police all your brass at the range cuz some gang banger is going to be reloading YOUR spent casings marked with YOUR serial number. /s?(Don't know if I should turn sarcasm on or off)

Man, things are going from bad to worse here in my state (CA - or is it CA CA??)


25 posted on 10/07/2004 1:47:52 PM PDT by Chinito (6990th Security Squadron - Combat Apple '69)
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To: BadAndy
So you think all re-loaders are criminals?

Or do you think that all criminals are too dumb to pull a bullet, and cast one out of wheel weights.

Hey do you think there may be a black market in unmarked bullets?
26 posted on 10/07/2004 1:50:16 PM PDT by donmeaker (Why did the Romans cross the road? To keep the slaves from revolting again.)
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To: 45Auto

If they want to laser-brand my bullets, they better be able to do it at anywhere from 800-1600 f.p.s.


27 posted on 10/07/2004 1:54:32 PM PDT by Hard Way (Razor nothin'. I'm firing up Occam's Chain Saw)
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To: 45Auto
headline should read....

"CA Dims Wish To Create Black Market For *Unbranded* Bullets.
28 posted on 10/07/2004 1:54:49 PM PDT by txdoda ("Navy Brat")
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To: 45Auto
Bullets without such micro-markings, including those from outside the state, would be barred by law

Well, sure nobody will break the law...right?

29 posted on 10/07/2004 1:58:31 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Hillary's heart is darker than the devil's riding boots....................)
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To: 45Auto

When the flock does Lockyer's term expire!?!?! Not soon enough!


30 posted on 10/07/2004 1:59:29 PM PDT by CAfraudPI
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To: 45Auto
OK... I'm taking off my "common FReeper hat" and putting on my "optical engineer hat". (And no, I'm not wearing PJs.)

THIS WON'T WORK.

Laser etching systems don't mark product instantaneously. It takes time to mark each part. As the marking is being done. the part, of course, must be stationary; it can't be done on-the-fly. Considering the tremendous volume of ammunition produced at the larger plants in this country, even a delay of a few milliseconds would bottleneck most manufacturer's lines. (I can imagine a system that would be nearly on-the-fly, but one misfeed would be disastrous.)

Next, consider the database that would be needed to keep track of all those marks. If all ammo, including .22, is included, that's several billion records per year. Even if each record is only a few dozen bytes long, the storage demand becomes huge in a very short period of time.
31 posted on 10/07/2004 2:09:14 PM PDT by Redcloak (Vikings plundered my last tag line.)
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To: 45Auto
I'm thinking I could make a very profitable living beign a gun and ammo runner from The rest of the USA to California.

These people have lost their minds.

32 posted on 10/07/2004 2:28:17 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Truth, Justice and the Texan Way)
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To: Ajnin

Well, a criminal could scatter some spent shells collected at a gun range. It would then be incumbant upon the innocent sportsperson to prove their innocence.


33 posted on 10/07/2004 3:12:26 PM PDT by glorgau
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To: glorgau

Good point.


34 posted on 10/07/2004 3:23:13 PM PDT by Ajnin
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To: 45Auto
I buy my ammo from Cascade Ammunition (Washington State, I think). I suppose this "law" would force them to stop UPS-ing the ammunition to my address in CA, eh?

--Boris

35 posted on 10/07/2004 5:22:51 PM PDT by boris (The deadliest weapon of mass destruction in history is a Leftist with a word processor)
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To: NRA2BFree
if this 'plan' is successful, it could be bad news for all gun owners.

Like the prevailing winds that blow west to east, I would say you're correct in that assumption.

36 posted on 10/07/2004 5:25:59 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: donmeaker

"So you think all re-loaders are criminals?"

Of course not, I have reloaded over 20K rounds myself. People are suggesting that shooters should dismantle live rounds and reassemble them using different components. Why in the world would I do that if I am just going to shoot them into a backstop?

"Or do you think that all criminals are too dumb to pull a bullet, and cast one out of wheel weights."

Most criminals are stupid and/or lazy. I seriously doubt that they would take the trouble to learn how to cast bullets (not trivial) or how to reload. It's too much like work.

Don't get me wrong. I don't support this labeling idiocy. My point was that the strategy proposed for coping with it wasn't practical. Best to kill it before it becomes law.


37 posted on 10/07/2004 7:10:24 PM PDT by BadAndy (Specializing in unnecessarily harsh comments.)
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To: Leapfrog
Now these kooks want bullets to be registered?

Apparnetly each with it's own serial number. Do these yahoos have any idea how many rounds are sold and fired in the state each year. Sure most of them are .22 long rifle, but it's a heck of lot of serial numbers.

It also means you'll have to register your ammo when you buy it. If it comes to pass, everyone in California should go out an buy a box of every kind of ammo they can afford, even it they don't have firearm that chambers it. Then trade with those who do. That ought to confuse their statistical analysts.

38 posted on 10/07/2004 8:02:47 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: Mikey_1962
Laser ID on bird shot??

Probably not, but I'll bet they try to get it on buckshot. Of course we ought to ask that it not be done until they can put it on the "dust" that is used in handgun "snake" rounds.

39 posted on 10/07/2004 8:05:46 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: snooker
Get some wheel weights, put them in a pot, turn up the heat, put them in your $10 mold and be happy.

Sound's like they want the brass marked as well. I'm sure they'll make possession of unmarked ammo a felony. You'll get punished, while someone who commits assault will get a misdemeanor. Of course once they tag you with a felony, there goes your RKBA, even if you move to Texas or other "gun friendly" location, the feds will see to that.

40 posted on 10/07/2004 8:11:35 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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