Posted on 10/06/2004 11:58:35 AM PDT by MaineRepublic
ESTES PARK - The mountain town of Estes Park is wrestling with some momentous issues these days; issues like freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and the U.S. Constitution.
It all came to a head when Town Trustee David Habecker refused to recite the Pledge of Allegiance at last week's board meeting. Habecker says the "under God" clause clashes with the constitutional separation of church and state. "I firmly believe it is a violation of the Constitution and felt it was my duty to make that position known," says Habecker.
But Town Trustee Lori Jeffrey-Clark says Habecker should have made his objections known before he was elected. "You know we're all elected and we're all supposed to lay it out on the table, who and what we stand for," Jeffrey-Clark says. Habecker says the Pledge of Allegiance only became an issue when the Board of Trustees decided to start saying it at the beginning of their meetings last spring. "And then a couple of weeks ago it just hit me," Habecker says, "that I was being a hypocrite standing there, mouthing the words". So now Habecker remains in his chair and stays silent while the pledge is recited.
Some residents of Estes Park are drawing up a petition to recall Habecker. They only need about 215 valid signatures to get it on the ballot.
Lordy, what a bunch of hooey. Just say the pledge, moron, and leave out the parts you don't like. "B-b-b-but, I need my OWN pledge so my f-f-f-feelings won't get hurt!" Screw you!
OK, that's probably the worst thing I've ever said here in the FR. Done venting now.
Well, to be perfectly accurate, the person in question is not saying the Pledge at all. He could easily stand mute just for the words "under God," as many folks do, but still pledge his allegiance.
Of course he could. He's stupid to make an issue of it by sitting silent. -- That's not the issue though, imo.
He's making a small thing into a large one, and that's just stupid.
I see the true stupidity in some residents of Estes Park trying to draw up an unconstitutional petition to recall Habecker for his refusal.
They are making the "big thing" of this.
So I take it you are in favor of the 9th Circuit declaring the Pledge Unconstitutional?
How ridiculous.
If inshallah was part of our heritage, then inshallah I would be saying.
It's like Charlie Daniel's words in his song, "Simple Man" People in the world say what's wrong today, Cause many have put the (good book) away. Now their living by the law of the jungle, not the law of the land. Bush/Cheney 2004
It's like Charlie Daniel's words in his song, "Simple Man" People in the world say what's wrong today, Cause many have put the (good book) away. Now their living by the law of the jungle, not the law of the land. Bush/Cheney 2004
If the actions of one guy are enough to keep you from spending money in a town, don't go anywhere. Everywhere you go, there is going to be somebody you don't agree with.
(If he's a really-far Lefty, I wonder if he'll sue on this basis after he is voted out of office next time around.)
So I take it you are in favor of the 9th Circuit declaring the Pledge Unconstitutional? How ridiculous.
Your assumption about me is ridiculous. I think the issue is a stupid tempest in a teapot. Unless people are being coerced to recite the 'under god' part of the pledge, who could rationally care?
Personally, I've never bothered trying to unlearn saying "under God", which is how I was taught in Catholic elementary school.
It took me years to stop making the sign of the cross whenever I heard an ambulance siren!
I do agree this guy is making too much of it. He should just say the Pledge that won World War II & be done with it.
About 2 years.
I (unlike the person discussed), would be very interested to have the info.
Article. VI.
Clause 1: All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
Clause 2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
IS THIS WHAT YOU MEAN?
You want to penalize a town that decided that they should say the pledge before their town hall meetings? That council members say that he should have stated his position PRIOR to election? A town that is in the process of recalling him?
He could have just omitted the "under God" part as many do, or at least stood politely.
He wanted to make a statement and the people feel the need to respond.
Do you believe, then, that this man must not KNOW WHAT THE HELL HE IS ARGUING ABOUT?
Did I win or lose this debate?
(Thank you for your initial response. I have followed many of your discussions, and know that you are informed on the subject of the Constitution, as well)
If that is removed, as a precursor to truth in testimony, what happens to our legal system?
They are allowed (by justification inside their own mind) to tell ONLY WHAT BENEFITS THEMSELVES and PROTECTS WHAT THEY HAVE STOLEN FROM OTHERS.
You know this is their goal.
ping
I feel his pain. If Kerry wins I may have trouble with the ,"I pledge allegiance" part ...
Well, I don't even want to think about that, but this Republic is greater than any one man. If we were able to survive 1860-1865 then we should be able to survive anything.
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