David Habecker
Posted on 10/06/2004 11:58:35 AM PDT by MaineRepublic
ESTES PARK - The mountain town of Estes Park is wrestling with some momentous issues these days; issues like freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and the U.S. Constitution.
It all came to a head when Town Trustee David Habecker refused to recite the Pledge of Allegiance at last week's board meeting. Habecker says the "under God" clause clashes with the constitutional separation of church and state. "I firmly believe it is a violation of the Constitution and felt it was my duty to make that position known," says Habecker.
But Town Trustee Lori Jeffrey-Clark says Habecker should have made his objections known before he was elected. "You know we're all elected and we're all supposed to lay it out on the table, who and what we stand for," Jeffrey-Clark says. Habecker says the Pledge of Allegiance only became an issue when the Board of Trustees decided to start saying it at the beginning of their meetings last spring. "And then a couple of weeks ago it just hit me," Habecker says, "that I was being a hypocrite standing there, mouthing the words". So now Habecker remains in his chair and stays silent while the pledge is recited.
Some residents of Estes Park are drawing up a petition to recall Habecker. They only need about 215 valid signatures to get it on the ballot.
could someone post a link to the Estes Park city government? I, for one would like to let them know this issue will keep me from spending my money in their town while on vacation.
Why doesn't he just remain silent for the words "under God"?
"Why doesn't he just remain silent for the words "under God"?"
Excellent question. As an atheist, that's what I do. I say the Pledge as it was taught to me, back in 1950, before the words were even in there. But I say it proudly.
"Why do people feel the need to make an issue of the Pledge of Allegiance? It is now part of our heritage. A link back to the days of the Cold War when we took comfort in our faith. I don't see how anyone could this this was some sort of establishing religion issue."
To answer your question, idiots like this just want their 15 minutes of fame!
God, God, God, God, God, what is wrong with people trying to eliminate GOD from everything??? IMO that's what's wrong with the world, no GOD. Next they'll try to remove God from our currency and put what - in hell we trust? in the moon we trust?
Does it really offend you to say "Under God"?
Okay, I'm going to blunt again. Ready?
This man is a maggot!
Betcha he votes for Kerry six or seven times.
"Does it really offend you to say "Under God"?"
No. I just don't say it, because I'm an atheist and don't believe that deities or any other supernatural entities exist. It doesn't bother me when others invoke their deity. It only bothers me when others try to insist that I invoke their deity.
I pledge allegiance to my nation, which I have served honorably. I needn't reference some deity in which I do not believe to honor my nation by pledging allegiance to it.
You're welcome to, though. I'll never object.
It kind of defeats the purpose of the Pledge if he says things he doesn't believe as a part of it. If the Pledge were just a bunch of words, I doubt he'd care much. That he cares enough to examine what's being said and remains silent for whatever does not apply shows effort and sincerity to me.
Second, I bet the REASON he believes there is some violation of law is because he read it in the PAPER.
There is no law stating this. Our forefathers were concerned about the POWERS of CHURCH and POWERS of STATE being mixed.
The only way to do what this 'trustee' suggests is for any political worker of any stripe or office, to sign an oath of aetheism upon taking that post. Take God off the MONEY, Take it out of the POA.
This country is UNDER GOD. Not under RELIGION.
If you want to be an atheist, that doesn't change the fact that the rest of us have faith in it.
First, I bet money this man has not read the Constitution since Junior High School.
How long has it been since you read Art. VI?
"Why do people feel the need to make an issue of a man who refuses to say "under god"?
Our Constitution specifies [in Article VI] that the oath of office is "to support this Constitution", and, -- that "no religious test shall ever be required" to hold any office.
"
Well, to be perfectly accurate, the person in question is not saying the Pledge at all. He could easily stand mute just for the words "under God," as many folks do, but still pledge his allegiance.
He's making a small thing into a large one, and that's just stupid. While I've been called names for omitting "under God," that doesn't disturb me. If I stood mute for the whole pledge, then that would be a different matter.
Interestingly, I used to live in a tourist town. During that town's 4th of July celebration, there was a big mass flag salute and several hundred people saying the Pledge. I stood next to a couple, who stood silent during the Pledge. I thought it rather odd, but didn't say anything.
The guy standing behind these folks did. He cursed them, called them un-American, and used some pretty foul language toward them. I suspect he had consumed a few too many beers.
The man of the couple listened to this guy's diatribe, then turned around and said, in a British accent, "I cannot pledge allegiance to your flag, since I am a British subject. You, sir, are a dolt."
Shut the loud guy right up.
I'm agnostic, but does that mean I would be a hypocrite saying "Under God"? No. I say it as it is part of our heritage. To me it just acknowledges the role faith has had in our nation's history.
Do you leave it out of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address too like I have seen some do:
"It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
because he wouldn't get any attention that way... just acting like a little brat
Try this test: Would it offend you to say "...one nation, inshallah, with liberty and justice for all" ?
"Does it really offend you to say "Under God"?
Try this test: Would it offend you to say "...one nation, inshallah, with liberty and justice for all" ?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.