Posted on 09/29/2004 3:33:23 AM PDT by tcg
That's why I'm of the opinion it's a grey area.
The people who argue that Iraq is unjust would argue, IMO, that the war against the Taliban was justified, but Iraq had nothing to do with the attack on 9/11 so was none of our business.
Ironically, Desert Shield/Storm came closer to Just War than most of our other conflicts. Responding to an attack on self or an ally, all other options had failed, declared by valid authority, no looting, no intentional attacks on civilians, and so forth.
I say ironic, because Desert Storm never ENDED. A cease fire was declared, based on Saddam's compliance (which was not forthcoming). So, one could, IMO, see Operation Iraqi Freedom as a re-engagement of the earlier conflict, based on bad faith on the part of the Iraq Gov't.
I think it all comes down to whether or not you see Iraq as a) an independant conflict, or b) another front opened up in the war against, frankly, Islamofascism.
If you picked A, it's an unjust war. We are the attacker, and so on. If you picked B (my own personal choice), well then, we're opening up new positions in a war we didn't start, but certainly plan to finish.
IMHO, of course.
Bingo. Don't know if you're RC, but from my (RC) perspective, it peeves me to no end that the man closest to Church Doctrine is a friggin Protestant.
(No offense to protestants; I'm sure some of you had similar feelings about ol' Bill (I'm a Southern Baptist) Clinton.)
Hey, as a Fourth Degree Knight, lemme tell you: If they'll take me, they'll take anybody.
Geez, man, y'all should see what's left of me after a week in Cancun. I need another week of vacation to recover from my week of vacation.
= )
Yup..sadly I am a more faithful RC than my priest or any of the staff at the church...refuse to leave and give up the ground to them though...working the inside to keep them on their toes....teach middleschoolers, wear my Bush button to class..
Had a student ask if I liked Bush (ahh, yeah honey, hence the pin!!) I said yes and she told me that her parents liked Kerry.
I said, "I'm sorry to hear that sweetie. Take this home for them." and gave her a pamphlet on Voting Catholic that favors Bush.....still waiting for the call.....
the “Jihadists”, who have seized the moment and set up their evil revolution within Iraq. They are the personification of evil and do not represent the heart of Islam.
The author is 100% wrong on this. The Jihadists are the heart and soul of islam. If you are not a terrorist then you are not following the koran.
Secondly, the author has a distinct desire for social justice. If it's social then it's not justice. It may be socialist but it's not justice. No where does God command the church to forcibly redistribute wealth and every social justice program uses the force of governement to do just that.
I agree with the author's result (vote for Bush) but I found the article to be unclearly written and full of Catholic 'snobbishness'
If he wanted to write from a Catholic viewpoint he could have done that without slammin all non-Catholics.
Yeah, yeah, whatever Fournier.
Just tell that to St. Michael ;)
I am surprised at the amount of Catholics that continue to support Kerry. (This guy Kerry just seems to have a lot of contempt for a good many people.)
Last year I was in a study group discussing Mel Gibson's movie, The Passion of the Christ, and we talked about courage in people, and what it took for our Lord to get through the scourging, and the road to Golgotha.
We compared that to today, and one of the people present said, "Yes... we should pray for the convictions of those holding protests against the Iraq war."
I countered by saying, "Excuse me but what about the convictions of our men and women in uniform overseas that are liberating a country of 23 million people that were being persecuted by a tyrannical government?
She snapped back, "This is not a just war!"
I could see clearly where her allegiance lies, and I am sure she's voting for Kerry. Yet she's active in our parish, and helps teach religious ed., as I do.
I just don't understand why they don't see the contradictions in someone like Kerry who spits on the Catholic teachings.
How in the world do they justify their vote?
I think they seem to conveniently forget the part in John where Jesus says:
"If you were blind, there would be no sin in that.
'But we see', you say, and your sin remains."
Did not read bump.
I had serious qualms about the start of the war, being torn both ways, but I have come to the conclusion we are dealing with a different situation than the just war teaching in it's current form was meant to deal with, just like many other guidelines and international agreements.
Knowing now what we know about how well Saddam was funding the terror war, and other things, I think in retrospect one might make a decent case even for the just war as it is written - because by funding and supporting the terrorists he WAS attacking us, even not getting into the WMD issue, which I think may have been horribly clouded by the MSM, and I haven't taken the time to dig out the truth.
I prayed hard on it, fasted, and I saw all my prayers about the opening of the war come through and answered positively.
The more atrocities of the regime that came to light, the more I wondered if this wasn't in God's hand, after all!
Well, we are there now, and it would be horribly immoral not to finish.
Ultimately, even by the philosophy of the Just War doctrine, it's not really the religious leaders who are given the mantle to decide...it's the political leaders, and I believe Mr. Bush is a man of God, and will do what he feels is correct under that influence, because this is who he is.
One can put God in a box, but he never stays there very long, and if you aren't open to him, he still find a way to reach his goals.
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