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A True Conservative
MeMyselfAndI | 9/24/2004 | NCSteve

Posted on 09/24/2004 12:33:11 PM PDT by NCSteve

My definition of a "true" conservative is pretty simple:

A political conservative is someone who believes that the least government is the best government. A political conservative believes the only valid function of the US Federal government is to provide for the common defense and to regulate interstate trade. A political conservative believes that anything more than this leads to tyranny and must be resisted at all costs.

A political conservative also believes that the sovereignty of the US is sacrosanct because it was purchased with the blood of her children. A political conservative believes that treaties and trade agreements that violate that sovereignty are anathema and those who support them are treasonous.

A social conservative believes that the US was founded on traditional Judeo-Christian values. A social conservative believes that personal responsibility is second only to fealty to God in importance as a personality trait. A social conservative believes that the traditional family is the most important social construct and is fundamental to the survival of our society.

A fiscal conservative believes that you have first rights to the fruits of your own labor. A fiscal conservative believes that just as we all must live within our means, so must the government. A fiscal conservative believes that it is immoral for the government to confiscate the wealth of its citizens in order to redistribute it, no matter what the reason.

A "true" conservative is a political, a social, and a fiscal conservative. Simple as that.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: conservative; libertarianizethegop
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To: Jaysun


My pleasure. :)


61 posted on 09/24/2004 1:59:38 PM PDT by Repairman Jack
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To: tacticalogic
I'm with you.

My point was that in arguing the role of the federal government we have to remember that we aren't playing in the same park that the Founders were. The states are impotent today. I assume that since ALL of the colonies had sodomy laws, decent social policy was something that they considered important. As such, I would have to assume that they'd be right behind President Bush in wanting to amend the Constitution if they were here today.
62 posted on 09/24/2004 2:03:57 PM PDT by Jaysun (Taxation WITH representation isn't so hot either.)
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To: Jim Robinson

I see no conflict. Too many people see "least government" on the page and hear "no government" in their minds. Part of the problem with leaving the definition at limited government is the wide variety of interpretations of what limited means. I have argued with countless Democrats who think our current government is limited. You and I know nothing could be further from the truth.

I'll not defend least government as a complete solution, though. Snippets like my vanity will inevitably lead to varying interpretations and that is why I chose not to trumpet my thoughts as an exclusive definition (and why I scrupulously double-quoted the word true). Incidentally, the source for my twin criteria on limits are based on what I have read of the founder's writings and I believe Article 1, Section 8 is the inevitable result of those limits.

I agree with you completely that conservatives must hold the founders' intent in high regard. Conservatives must reject the tenet that the Constitution is a "living" document. That being said, the founders could never have foreseen things like the acceptance of "alternative" lifestyles, instant communication, and the rise of socialism. I believe if conservatives fundamentally adhere to what I have written, then their judgement in matters that are beyond the scope and ken of the founders' knowledge will still fall within their intent.


63 posted on 09/24/2004 2:04:28 PM PDT by NCSteve
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To: NutCrackerBoy
Social conservatives believe that the federal or state government can and should act, despite the other limitations on their power, to support institutions that tend to engender a strong moral character, such as church and marriage.

aka provide for the general welfare?
64 posted on 09/24/2004 2:05:14 PM PDT by Jaysun (Taxation WITH representation isn't so hot either.)
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To: Jaysun


I'd like to think that they would rather start removing power from the federal government and returning it to the states.

I mean, IMO, two wrongs don't make a right.


65 posted on 09/24/2004 2:05:31 PM PDT by Repairman Jack
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To: NCSteve
Well put.

I guess you'll be faced with a choice, vote for someone who does not represent your core beliefs, who could win.......

Or vote for someone who does represent your core beliefs who will not win..............

Or join a bunch of like minded Americans who believe that their vote belongs ONLY to themselves, at the bar, for drinks, instead of following the lemmings.
66 posted on 09/24/2004 2:06:28 PM PDT by WhiteGuy (Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press...)
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To: Jaysun
aka provide for the general welfare?

Bahh.

That's "promote the general welfare."

And it doesn't mean social programs.

67 posted on 09/24/2004 2:07:32 PM PDT by Repairman Jack
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To: Jim Robinson; NCSteve; amdgmary; My2Cents; floriduh voter; phenn; pc93; Republic; tbritton; ...
To: NCSteve
"... Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To ..."


The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
# 5 by Jim Robinson
**********************************
I believe that the power of Judicial Review usurped by the Supreme Court in 1803 is a major cause of corruption, not just in the Judicial, but in the Executive and Legislative branches as well.

Both Congress and the President excuse their actions by saying "if it's not legal, the Supreme Court will tell us so."

That gives them an "out," a way of passing and enforcing laws they know are illegal; they by pass the buck to the Judicial, and pretend they don't know when they're breaking the law.

68 posted on 09/24/2004 2:08:16 PM PDT by exodus
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To: tacticalogic
No political conservative would support changing [the definition of marriage] by decree of the federal government.

But the belief that state judiciaries and the US Supreme Court are way overstepping their bounds, forcing new definition down everyone's throat, seems to be more fervently held by social conservatives than political ones.

By the way, I support the Federal Marriage Amendment as a political solution that gets the federal government more into the marriage business, only because impeachment is deemed overly nuclear at the moment.

I suppose a political conservative might believe in the concept that marriage was never legally defined (only assumed) to be between a man and a woman. Since the definition of a word is changing, the political conservative seeks to keep government out of it either way.

69 posted on 09/24/2004 2:10:18 PM PDT by NutCrackerBoy
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To: newgeezer
"A political conservative is someone who believes that the least government is the best government."

Why is the least government the best government? I don't know the conservative answer to that question. A libertarian answer follows.

The heart of libertarianism is self-ownership and the non-aggression principal; that an adult person has the right to do whatever he wishes with his own life and production, and that no person or group of people has the right to initiate force or fraud to invade that right or steal that production. Libertarian political activity is aimed at achieving a society where this right to self-ownership is respected to the maximum extent possible. It should be clear that using the force of government for anything beyond this is itself aggression (i.e. initiation of force), hence "the least government is the best government."

There is disagreement among libertarians as to what political arrangement would best accomplish this purpose. Some say limited government, such as that laid out by the U.S. Constitution is the best we can do, others assert that this experiment has failed and it's time to try anarchy.

Libertarians have this purpose, this yardstick, against which to measure any government. Do conservatives have anything like that?
70 posted on 09/24/2004 2:10:20 PM PDT by Ruadh (Liberty is not a means to a political end. It is itself the highest political end. — LORD ACTON)
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To: Jaysun
I assume that since ALL of the colonies had sodomy laws, decent social policy was something that they considered important. As such, I would have to assume that they'd be right behind President Bush in wanting to amend the Constitution if they were here today.

In reading of their various speeches and letters, I get the sense that, while they had definite social mores and strictures they considered important, they did not consider the enforcement of them an appropriate role for the national government.

71 posted on 09/24/2004 2:10:25 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Repairman Jack
I just happen to believe the conservative and religious values I have no need of government support, nor is it government's place to support them.

No offense, but this always gets me. Many Christians say, "I don't need the Ten Commandments in a courthouse to know what I believe" or, "I don't need prayer done by schools blah blah blah" and "I don't have to see a Nativity scene to know what Christmas...."

That's why we're being ramrodded by the reprobates of the ACLU and other such organizations in spite of the fact that we're in the majority.
72 posted on 09/24/2004 2:11:05 PM PDT by Jaysun (Taxation WITH representation isn't so hot either.)
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To: Repairman Jack

I guess that's exactly the point. I was trying to posit a rounded definition of overall conservatism. It is my belief that social conservatives would balance their social mores against their political ideals. In most cases, there would be no conflict. A balanced conservative, I believe, would see the inherent risks of impressing their social mores on their neighbors. Howevever, I believe that social conservatism is what prevents political conservatism from degrading into anarchy.


73 posted on 09/24/2004 2:12:01 PM PDT by NCSteve
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To: Ruadh


Those of us conservatives who consider the heart of conservativism to be libertarianism have that yardstick.


74 posted on 09/24/2004 2:12:25 PM PDT by Repairman Jack
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To: Repairman Jack
That's "promote the general welfare."

Very well, "promote the general welfare." I know that it doesn't mean social programs (food stamps, housing, etc) but might it mean things that promote decency? If not, what in the hell does it mean?
75 posted on 09/24/2004 2:13:32 PM PDT by Jaysun (Taxation WITH representation isn't so hot either.)
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To: Jaysun


Being in the majority doesn't give us the right to co-opt government to advance our own agenda.

We should play in the free market of ideas, without subsidy or penalty.

I believe this because I believe our values are superior.


76 posted on 09/24/2004 2:14:28 PM PDT by Repairman Jack
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To: exodus

Too, too true, sadly.


77 posted on 09/24/2004 2:16:08 PM PDT by Mach9 (.)
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To: NCSteve


I fear that puts us on the path towards - "I don't believe government should promote an agenda, unless it's my agenda."

Just rubs me the wrong way.

I prefer to use persuasion when it comes to advancing conservative social mores, not the sledgehammer of government power.

Speaking broadly and metaphorically, if government can ban one of their books, then that same government in the wrong hands can ban our books.


78 posted on 09/24/2004 2:17:09 PM PDT by Repairman Jack
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To: NutCrackerBoy
By the way, I support the Federal Marriage Amendment as a political solution that gets the federal government more into the marriage business, only because impeachment is deemed overly nuclear at the moment.

IMHO, if there has to be a political solution at the federal level with regard to marriage, then an amendment would be the way to do it. I don't think I agree with it as an exercise in social engineering because it sets what I think is a dangerous precendent (not in the end, but in the means). But it may be necessary to define it simply because it has been incorporated into the tax codes.

79 posted on 09/24/2004 2:17:11 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
In reading of their various speeches and letters, I get the sense that, while they had definite social mores and strictures they considered important, they did not consider the enforcement of them an appropriate role for the national government.

Right, they considered the enforcement of them an appropriate role for the states (sodomy punishable by death for example). The states, as I know you're aware, have had their hands tied by the 'effin courts.

So what are we to do? It seems unlikely that we'll revert back to the original idea that states had the power over such things. The only other choices are to let it go to hell, or do it on a national level.
80 posted on 09/24/2004 2:18:08 PM PDT by Jaysun (Taxation WITH representation isn't so hot either.)
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