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Bang List: What's your opinion of 12-gauge Flechettes?
SABOT DESIGNS LLC ^

Posted on 09/19/2004 10:45:45 AM PDT by SlickWillard

What do you thing of this ammunition?

Is it stable? Accurate? Lethal?

If you were PD/SWAT/Special Forces, would you use this ammunition in an "urban" anti-terrorism situation? [Assume your orders are something like "Maximize terrorist deaths while minimizing civilian deaths."]

Or are flechettes just a lot of fancy-schmantzy marketing gibberish?

Whether they're useful or not, they're certainly expensive. For instance, a single round of Federal 000 magnums [10 balls per shot] costs about $0.75:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?sku=65647
Whereas a single round of Flechette Sabots [19 flechettes per shot] costs about $2.00:
http://www.antipersonnel.net/sdllc/006.html
So: Any thoughts about this ammunition?

Thanks!


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist
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To: CurlyDave

That should be a reason to use them against terrorists.


81 posted on 09/19/2004 12:01:45 PM PDT by B4Ranch (´´Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the people´s liberty´s teeth.)
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Comment #82 Removed by Moderator

To: misanthrope

One can make their own from finishing nails. My question would be, WHY??


83 posted on 09/19/2004 12:13:38 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: SlickWillard

I use 00 Buck in my Remy 870 Synthetic 12ga (8+1) with EoTech glass.

Please put me on your ping list, SW.


84 posted on 09/19/2004 12:18:06 PM PDT by 7.62 x 51mm (• Veni • Vidi • Vino • Visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis
flechettes have fins for stabilization.
You can buy 'em by the # in Shotgun News if ya wanna load yer own.
85 posted on 09/19/2004 12:20:39 PM PDT by AlBondigas
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Comment #86 Removed by Moderator

To: Bottom_Gun
"I'd rather have them it and not need them it, than not have them it and need them it"...

Precisely why I carry concealed (Penna CCW) Kimber "Eclipse Tarket II" 1911A1 .45cal ACP, everyday.

After being robbed and shot on July 14, 1974 in Boynton Beach, FL, coming out of The Tropical Acres Restaurant, I still carry a .32cal bullet near my lower spine. I won't ever again be a helpless victim.

87 posted on 09/19/2004 12:24:38 PM PDT by 7.62 x 51mm (• Veni • Vidi • Vino • Visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: islander-11

Exactly what I have, with EoTech glass and a sidesaddle holder. Black Synthetic version compliments all my other "Black Rifles"...


88 posted on 09/19/2004 12:28:20 PM PDT by 7.62 x 51mm (• Veni • Vidi • Vino • Visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: papertiger

I don't suppose you know where that same info would be for H&K pistols, do you?


89 posted on 09/19/2004 12:28:25 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater ("Oh boy, I can't wait to eat that monkey!"--Abe Simpson)
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Comment #90 Removed by Moderator

To: punster
But, in the range between a shotgun can be absolutely devastating, even more effective
than a SMG. Why?


A long time ago Finn Aagard did an article in The American Rifleman about
the optimal loads to use in a shotgun for home defense.
I can't be sure, but I think he might have also mentioned that
one advantage of a pump shotgun was that, in the night and in the dark,
the sound of a round being chambered in a 12 gauge pump has probably prevented more
crime than any other sound besides barking dogs.

I may have read that somewhere else...and it may just be urban legend...
but I suspect that sound telegraphs plenty of fear into knowlegeable
thugs who don't have a death-wish!
91 posted on 09/19/2004 12:34:30 PM PDT by VOA
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To: Future Snake Eater
look here
92 posted on 09/19/2004 12:45:38 PM PDT by AlBondigas
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To: SlickWillard

Suppose you had been a lone policeman on duty the day the Muslims stormed Beslan Middle School #1, and all you had was your duty-issue 12 gauge, and it was you against 15-20 Muslims, at fairly close range.

What would you want as your ammunition?

A full magazine tube of 12 gauge FLAMETHROWER rounds. Nothing like being sprayed with molten metal to get your attention while your clothing and skin are on fire. (Kevlar vests burn quite nicely.) Hide behind something that's not hardened steel, and it's on fire. If you alternate those rounds with Hg/Mg amalgam filled hollow point slugs, the results are explosive. Of course, this would be frowned upon by the PC authorities. Corpses have a low tendency to sue, however.

I enjoyed shooting the 90mm APERS rounds, they were kickass.


93 posted on 09/19/2004 12:47:15 PM PDT by datura (Democrat=Communist=America's Enemy Within)
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To: papertiger

What a man. What a man.


94 posted on 09/19/2004 12:49:44 PM PDT by Nita Nupress ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Hillary Clinton, 6/28/04)
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To: papertiger

Or were you just kidding? Surely you were.


95 posted on 09/19/2004 12:54:30 PM PDT by Nita Nupress ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Hillary Clinton, 6/28/04)
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To: papertiger

By golly, you're right! LOL.


96 posted on 09/19/2004 12:55:13 PM PDT by 7.62 x 51mm (• Veni • Vidi • Vino • Visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: SlickWillard

These would be extremely effective. I did some test firing on a BAR action 12 gauge "automatic" shotgun while in the army. The weight of the weapon with the 30 round canister magazine made the thing not very practical for light infantry,but for vehicle mounted or stationary use it would be great. The flachette rounds, designed for mass assualts and/or heavy underbrush would definately sweep the streets of dancing terrorists and would limit collateral damage.


97 posted on 09/19/2004 1:00:47 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: papertiger

For the better, just a tiny bit.


98 posted on 09/19/2004 1:15:07 PM PDT by B4Ranch (´´Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the people´s liberty´s teeth.)
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To: islander-11; G.Mason; 7.62 x 51mm
Should someone break into my home, we'll see how OO Buck will perform. My guess - pretty damn well!
Happiness in close quarters is a Remington 870 with a Surefire light on the rail...

Nine .32 cal. (00 Buck) pellets flying out of a Remington 870 Express at up to say 60 yards is deadly.

I use 00 Buck in my Remy 870 Synthetic 12ga...

I thought 00 Buck was in my own Rem. 870 but I just looked and it's 0 Buck. Does it really make that much difference? If I ever had to use it on someone who broke in, they would be anywhere from 10 to 40 ft from me, btw.

99 posted on 09/19/2004 1:16:05 PM PDT by Nita Nupress ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Hillary Clinton, 6/28/04)
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To: datura
A full magazine tube of 12 gauge FLAMETHROWER rounds.

Dude, I thought you were kidding until I Googled it:

http://www.google.com/search?q=12+gauge+FLAMETHROWER&safe=off
From what I see at those URLs, this "flamethrower" stuff looks like it could take out half a city block.

Remember, your goal here is to kill as many terrorists as possible but as few children as possible [and obviously, in a perfect scenario, no children would be harmed at all].

100 posted on 09/19/2004 1:18:42 PM PDT by SlickWillard
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