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Chess player Garry Kasparov blames Putin for destroying democracy in Russia
Pravda.ru ^ | 09/16/2004

Posted on 09/16/2004 2:22:02 PM PDT by Lukasz

The European and Russian governments are living in two different worlds

"Business is politics in up-to-date Russia. The government controls all aspects of the nation's life and the commercial field is not an exception," the chairman of the committee "2008: Free Choice", Grand Master Garry Kasparov said on September 13th at the Baltic Forum of Development in Hamburg. Below you can find excerpts from the chess player's speech.

"We must draw a distinction between the current Russian leadership and the citizens of Russia. The rich culture, creativity, the knowledge and humanity of our nation is still alive and means a lot more to the world than the whole Russian oil," Kasparov said. "High oil prices make the only support for Putin's regime. Citizens of other oil-extracting countries do not derive profit from the oil wealth. Both oil and all other natural resources of Russia should have their own markets and open ways to reach those markets."

Garry Kasparov believes that Russia should unite with Europe. "This union would be important to the Russian nation for social and economic reasons. The traditions of the European democracy and the relative economic stability will help Russia become a modern state. However, Putin's regime mixes up the past and the present. A lot of Russia's neighbors are still being suspicious about Russia, and they have reasons for it. An order in the past is necessary for the future progress. The European and Russian governments are living in two different worlds," Kasparov stated in Hamburg.

"One of the examples to prove it is the fact how our media outlets defend the notorious pact of 1939 between Nazis and Soviets. The USSR attacked Finland because of the pact, it invaded the Baltic republics, occupied a part of Poland and assisted in unleashing WWII. Russia needs to acknowledge the crimes of its Soviet predecessors.

"The avowal of guilt is a good spiritual remedy, which also means the acknowledgement of universal moral values, which the Kremlin currently rejects. One of these values is the ability to find common language. Putin's administration does not know how to speak this language.

"The Soviet past still dominates the Russian reality and politics. Putin is aware of that. In his address to the nation after the hostage crisis in Beslan, the president said that the nation is living under the conditions, which have been created with the collapse of a great state, which proved to be helpless in the changing world. It would be the same to say that you have been living in a house without the water supply system," Kasparov said.

"The Soviet Union could not and cannot be a part of modern Europe. It could become a part of Europe only with its conquests. We must distinguish between modern Russia that we need and the Soviet past that Putin is trying to retrieve.

"There is no place for Committee 2008 and the real opposition in the Russian press. However, there is a place for nationalists and Stalinists, who grieve about that "great state." They decline basic democratic values. These talks about the return to the erstwhile glory are becoming more frequent now. The Nazi propaganda is prohibited in Germany, but not in Russia," Kasparov said.

"Unfortunately, this is not the only aspect, in which Putin exercises himself as a Stalinist. He talks about everything in the old Soviet language. He suppresses freedom of speech, freedom of commerce, he has led Russia astray.

"Putin announced that he would cancel elections of regional governors as a measure to struggle against terrorism. Local parliamentarians will have to approve the selected nominees. Putin is destroying democracy at the time when we need it most. Western politicians might say that the Russian Constitution technically allows it. However, if the West keeps silent, we will most likely witness similar changes happening in the presidential election procedure.

"Even the national lucrative oil market does not function according to the standards of the civilized world. The scandal with Yukos and its CEO, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, has exerted a destructive influence on the economy.

"It is impossible for Europe to deal with the current Russian administration. Europe should press on Putin for changes. One should not let Putin mix the Soviet past with the Russian future in an attempt to keep the relations.

"Schroeder and Chirac are using double standards instead, which brings a lot of harm to the Russian nation. It is not time for Realpolitik. Each meeting of the Group of Seven with Putin's participation is perceived as the approval of Putin's home policy.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: democracy; kasparov; putin; russia
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To: Destro
Actually this fragment is more important:
"thousands gathered near the Kremlin and spoke of their love for the president. Mr Putin later received the organisers of the rally in the Kremlin."
261 posted on 09/17/2004 1:44:17 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: MarMema

I don’t know why you are talking about Orthodox religion over and over, it is not the theme. Beside of that Orthodox and Catholicism it is exactly the same religion with the same God, few different customs (only thanks to policy! cause bishops of Constantinople and Rome didn’t liked themselves few centuries ago) don’t change that fact. I repeat THE SAME GOD! Rest doesn’t matter!


262 posted on 09/17/2004 3:11:34 AM PDT by Lukasz (Don’t trust the heart, it wants your blood.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Nothing wrong with civil disobedience, but expect to pay the price.

And nothing wrong with the governmens punishing for such disobedience?

263 posted on 09/17/2004 5:06:05 AM PDT by A. Pole (Madeleine Albright:"We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see further into the future.")
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To: Lukasz
I don’t remember any examples for mass scale, of people wearing T-shirts with faces of politicians in this region.

Poland is a Catholic country where Church leaders get more respect than politicians. I have seen people with Pope's pictures. streets named after him and even monuments (during his life!). In Russia, the Church had much less prominent position while the king had the first place in honor and devotion.

Similar in Protestant countries where people are more likely to carry pictures of politicians than religious leaders.

This is a cultural difference and not Putin's demand.

264 posted on 09/17/2004 5:15:06 AM PDT by A. Pole (Madeleine Albright:"We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see further into the future.")
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To: Lukasz
Beside of that Orthodox and Catholicism it is exactly the same religion with the same God, few different customs (only thanks to policy! cause bishops of Constantinople and Rome didn’t liked themselves few centuries ago) don’t change that fact.

Actually in matter of politics there is a critical difference. In Catholic tradition the most elevated position belongs to the Pope and bishops. Pope was the overseer of the kings and bishops had special exemptions.

In Orthodoxy the King or Tsar is at the pinnacle and patriarchs/bishops are expected to be obedient to him (with the exception of spiritual matters of course). For the Catholics the Pope is their Holy Father, Russians called Tsar - Batiushka ie Daddy (in England to smaller degree there is also tradition of venerating the monarch).

265 posted on 09/17/2004 5:21:27 AM PDT by A. Pole (Madeleine Albright:"We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see further into the future.")
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To: Lukasz; A. Pole

Sounds like a Clear Channnel sponsored rally to me :P


266 posted on 09/17/2004 6:23:06 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Grzegorz 246

Sounds like a Clear Channnel sponsored rally to me :P


267 posted on 09/17/2004 6:24:02 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: A. Pole
Actually in matter of politics there is a critical difference. In Catholic tradition the most elevated position belongs to the Pope and bishops. Pope was the overseer of the kings and bishops had special exemptions.
In Orthodoxy the King or Tsar is at the pinnacle and patriarchs/bishops are expected to be obedient to him (with the exception of spiritual matters of course). For the Catholics the Pope is their Holy Father, Russians called Tsar - Batiushka ie Daddy (in England to smaller degree there is also tradition of venerating the monarch).


and what, beside of interference of humans, it is the same. Particular interests of few foolish guys decided here, no will of God. God gave the them “free will”, unfortunately they didn’t cared about God but they cared about own power. That is all.

In Russia, the Church had much less prominent position while the king had the first place in honor and devotion. Similar in Protestant countries where people are more likely to carry pictures of politicians than religious leaders.

In Poland people wanted and want to have picture of Pope, in Russia people must have pictures of politicians. Most brutal dictators were Russians, people didn't had a choice.

This is a cultural difference and not Putin's demand.

What a problem for Putin to pay someone for that. We will never know, in Russia everything is possible.
268 posted on 09/17/2004 7:06:17 AM PDT by Lukasz (Don’t trust the heart, it wants your blood.)
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To: A. Pole
>After all Kosovo is under his control ...

Here are two old links
in case you've never seen them.
They're from a Christian

site run by some guys
with a background in Army
intelligence. They

are generally
left-leaning, but they're detailed
and usually

provide deep backgrounds.
And, in three years, I've never
caught them in a lie.

------------------------------------------------------

THE CAUCASUS MOUNTAINS, GOG, MAGOG, AND CHEVRON OIL

KOSOVO & AMERICA: WHAT'S GOING ON? [THE ELITE'S EXPLANATION OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN CHECHNYA]

269 posted on 09/17/2004 7:21:09 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: A. Pole
"Actually many passages are hard or not possible to translate accurately. That is why I took some Greek (New Testament is more important for me) so with the dictionary and a reliable (some idiots publish translations from KJV into Greek!) interlinear translation I can figure out the original meaning.

For plain political news, bablefish might be sufficient."


I will give you a little hint, "IF" you had the understanding of what is said in the "original" Greek, then you would have immersed yourself into understanding the original Hebrew of the OLD, because Christ, and the other writers continuously quoted the old, which makes the old part of the new. Just a hint.
270 posted on 09/17/2004 7:52:37 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Destro; A. Pole
I like Russian people. I prefer them than most western Europeans. They have great culture and most of them is quite well educated (not sarcasm) however I don't like Russian politicians. Putin and most of "Putin's team" are former KGB and GRU officers. Isn't It strange ? I don't know why, but It seems that It isn't strange for most Russians. It wouldn't be so danger If they were controlled by Putin, but It seems that Putin is controlled by them and this is really danger. Today many Russians say that they were under Communist occupation, probably in the future they will say that they were under Putin's occupation. Unfortunately soon Putin will change the Russian Constitution, which allow to be the President only twice, like in most civilized countries and he will become the new "Tsar" or he will chose the new President [former KGB officer of course] just like he was chosen by Yeltsin.
271 posted on 09/17/2004 8:21:42 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: A. Pole

You've never read Thoreau, have you?


272 posted on 09/17/2004 1:59:44 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Grzegorz 246
You're from Poland?

I have an enormous amount of respect for your nation and your people.

SOLIDARNOSC!

273 posted on 09/17/2004 2:07:06 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Just mythoughts
I will give you a little hint, "IF" you had the understanding of what is said in the "original" Greek, then you would have immersed yourself into understanding the original Hebrew of the OLD, because Christ, and the other writers continuously quoted the old, which makes the old part of the new. Just a hint.

Thank you for the hint, but these quotes from Old Testament are in GREEK - in the New Testament and they match with the oldest translation of O.T. into Greek done by the Jews for the Jews long time before Christ (Septuagint).

Hebrew version underwent two major redactions after Christ. First in 2nd c. when number of books were removed by Jewish leaders (this removal was followed later by Luther and Calvin) and around 800AD by the Masoretes when the primacy of Talmud was established (Karaites rejected this). So the N.T. quotes from O.T. represent the most original version.

274 posted on 09/17/2004 6:39:17 PM PDT by A. Pole (Madeleine Albright:"We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see further into the future.")
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To: Luis Gonzalez
SOLIDARNOSC!

I am glad you appreciate the trade unionism.

275 posted on 09/17/2004 6:40:59 PM PDT by A. Pole (Madeleine Albright:"We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see further into the future.")
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To: A. Pole

I appreciated what they accomplished.

It was people telling government that things were going to change.

You however, are on the side of government telling people what to do.


276 posted on 09/17/2004 7:00:25 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
It was people telling government that things were going to change.

They were not telling "that things were going to change", they were telling HOW they should change. And they got betrayed with the help of freemarketeers.

277 posted on 09/17/2004 7:26:12 PM PDT by A. Pole (Madeleine Albright:"We are the indispensable nation. We stand tall. We see further into the future.")
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To: A. Pole

Betrayal of course, is defined by people like you as impressive and sustained GDP growth since 1993, with one brief slow down in 2001-2002...the whole world slowed down that year.


278 posted on 09/17/2004 7:37:14 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez ( Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?)
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To: A. Pole

"Thank you for the hint, but these quotes from Old Testament are in GREEK - in the New Testament and they match with the oldest translation of O.T. into Greek done by the Jews for the Jews long time before Christ (Septuagint).

Hebrew version underwent two major redactions after Christ. First in 2nd c. when number of books were removed by Jewish leaders (this removal was followed later by Luther and Calvin) and around 800AD by the Masoretes when the primacy of Talmud was established (Karaites rejected this). So the N.T. quotes from O.T. represent the most original version."

Now this is a very interesting explanation, so you know from the Original Hebrew a few things have been altered? One example is what Peter is talking about in IIPeter 3.


279 posted on 09/17/2004 8:33:54 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Thank you.


280 posted on 09/18/2004 6:25:23 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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