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To: KMC1
Can you imagine anyone with much skill doing this bad a forgery? Doing it on Microsoft word? If you are 50 years old or older how do you fail to remember that computer printers are not typewriters? If you are in your 20s don't you research what was in use in 1973? Would I try to take a picture of a guy in 1973 by having him sitting in a 1976 car?

This whole thing does not ring true.

The more I think about this the more I think this must be some sort of setup or con act. I wonder if someone really hates Rather. Perhaps a former employee of CBS news. Could it be that CBS bought the story? Could CBS have had Rathers daughter offering to buy dirt on Dubya?Could someone think hey a half hour's work at Kinkos and a pitch to Rathers daughter, would be followed by smome cash from Rather? What else explains the story? Could Kerry have been offering bucks for dirt on Bush and an enterprising Word user... decided to try to make a few bucks?... and they fell for it?

What if the Kerry Campaign was trying to buy dirt on Bush .. and bought a forgery. What if the Kerry people vouched for the fake Documents being valid. Would Rather believe a top Kerry staffer over his own hired experts?

It appears Rather fell for some sort of Con, and is now between a rock and a hard place.

Something has to explain CBS buying these very sloppy forgeries. The source had to be very very believable to CBS.

19 posted on 09/15/2004 7:51:56 PM PDT by Common Tator
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To: Common Tator

>>the more I think this must be some sort of setup or con act<<

If there's one thing I've found to be absolutely true its that don't explain anything away by skill that can also be easily explained by stupidity.


31 posted on 09/15/2004 7:55:02 PM PDT by 1L
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To: Common Tator
The source had to be very very believable to CBS.


41 posted on 09/15/2004 7:56:31 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberalism is a Hate Crime-Liberate America from the occupation media!)
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To: Common Tator
If you are 50 years old or older how do you fail to remember that computer printers are not typewriters?

Easy if you are male.

52 posted on 09/15/2004 7:57:54 PM PDT by ladyjane
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To: Common Tator
What else explains the story?

Sheer arrogance, hubris, derangement, and stupidity.

104 posted on 09/15/2004 8:05:04 PM PDT by IonInsights
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To: Common Tator
If you are in your 20s don't you research what was in use in 1973?

They maybe used Hollyweird researchers.
I watched a flick tonight in which an Army Sgt. rattled off her service number which had a "US" prefix.
In another scene a senior Army NCO was addressed as "Gunny."

118 posted on 09/15/2004 8:07:08 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Tourette's syndrome is just a $&#$*!% excuse for poor *%$#** language skills.)
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To: Common Tator

Age, hubris, desperation, hate, sloth, unbroken circle of brown nosing, not having a decent news scoop in a decade and a half, being down to your last four viewers in a obscure nursing home...


132 posted on 09/15/2004 8:09:57 PM PDT by Leisler (Kerry, release your Department of Defense SF 180)
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To: Common Tator

My law enforcement buddies always tell me that criminals are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

I bet it went down somethng like this: Bill Burkett tells Dan Rather he has some memos. Dan can not believe his good fortune and tells him to send them ASAP. Bill stalls Dan and tells him he will send them in a couple of days.

Now, Bill may be a complete moron but he locates a old, used typewriter and starts typing up a forged document. He is probably a piss poor typist and can not even get the paper in the carriage straight. Well, he probably spends endless hours and days trying to make a decent forged document that does not look like a 13 year old's attempt to murder a piece of paper.

Meanwhile Dan keeps calling him asking him about the memos. Dan, totally exasperated, frustrated and anxious to get his hands on the incriminating evidence, tells Bill to fax the memos today or forget the whole thing. In sheer frustration Bill goes to his computer and prints out a forged document using MS Word and a laser printer. It looks too good so he rumples it up of few times then makes a copy of a copy of a copy...until he convinces himself it looks thirty-two years old. Then he just faxes the damn memos.

Dan gets the memos and just about craps his pants. He is so thrilled he does not even bother to notice the proportional spacing, kerning, superscript "th" etc. He just runs with it. Nobody ever accused Dan of being the smartest reporter on the planet. Busted!


143 posted on 09/15/2004 8:12:26 PM PDT by daviscupper
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To: Common Tator

It's possible that the forgeries were not the work of one person. The originator may have just put in a few things, other people added more, and finally sent the result to CBS.

Rather went with it because he wanted to believe, not because he checked it out thoroughly. Then when pressed, Rather (rather than admitting he was wrong and probably getting a Pulitizer for exposing the fraud) just acted insulted and stuck to his story.

Now Rather (and parts of CBS) can't afford (in what's left of their minds) to back down.

There is probably some intentional fraud and lots of wishful thinking by the Democrats.


152 posted on 09/15/2004 8:14:11 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Common Tator

I share your sentiments. At this point in time none of this makes sense to me.


198 posted on 09/15/2004 8:23:14 PM PDT by MagnumRancid (I need a new screen name - its left over from my Doom/Quake playing days.)
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To: Common Tator

My gut instinct tells me they weren't duped.

From what I can see, Rather hates Bush and he wanted this story bad. Bad enough to try and get away with it, even if he knew the memos were fakes?...possibly.


258 posted on 09/15/2004 8:38:58 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: Common Tator

OTOH see 241.

Rather and CBS say they know it's a sham from the git go and only go along with it to expose the guilty......


299 posted on 09/15/2004 8:56:11 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Bush Democrats = Zell's Angels)
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To: Common Tator
The source had to be very very believable to CBS.

Rather's behavior is bizarre and irrational, but that's nothing new. CBS ran this story without any real document verification and they were warned by two document experts. They apparantly duped Hodges to get him to "buy in". CBS was told by Killian's son and wife that the documents didn't ring true. CBS knew the fact that Killian's views on Lt. Bush in the fake documents contradicted Killian's views in already verified genuine documents.

I see no reason to assume CBS was using professionalism, ethics, standards, brains or just common sense to vet the source. There is such a thing as wanting something so bad you lose all judgement. I think they dreamed about this pony so long that they finally got it. Too bad for them the pony turned out to be an ass.

308 posted on 09/15/2004 9:03:54 PM PDT by Semi Civil Servant (I'm just another pajama journalist.)
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To: Common Tator; ~Kim4VRWC's~

I think Rather was set up, too. Posted that a long time ago. If so, it does not excuse the negligence of not checking for validity. Rather was too eager, probably. Nor does it excuse his silence now. But something isn't ringing true here. Also (this may have been asked already), do we know for sure what Burkett had copied at Kinko's?

Kim, thanks for the ping...


322 posted on 09/15/2004 9:16:01 PM PDT by GummyIII (Behind every successful woman... is a substantial amount of coffee. ~Stephanie Piro)
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To: Common Tator
The source had to be very very believable to CBS.

Nahhh. It's standard MO for the MSM to instantly accept as credible anything that paints a conservative in a bad light. Fact-checking not needed. Dead opposite if it portrays a liberal negatively, of course: dismissed out of hand as some kind of kook, or just not worth covering.

MM

333 posted on 09/15/2004 9:20:51 PM PDT by MississippiMan (Americans should not be sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.)
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To: Common Tator

They figured that if they just photocopied it 10 times, no one would notice.

They didn't count on the Pajama Inquisition.


390 posted on 09/15/2004 10:38:06 PM PDT by GEC
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To: Common Tator
"The source had to be very very believable to CBS."

Or else Rather figured they were questionable and didn't care, thinking that it would be difficult to prove and that the incriminating 'content' would overshadow any doubt about the source.

You know the lefties are a dishonorable bunch, and they are united in their hatred for Bush. I'm guessing that Rather thought the heavily biased MSM would come to his defense and beseige the people with articles and programs about "the content", (like Rather is doing now). I'm sure he also figured the MSM would attack the credibility of any hostile document experts by labeling them "right wing Bush people". What he didn't know was that the documents had more holes in them than Swiss Cheese, and even the MSM couldn't defend them.

As Rather keeps babbling on and on about the "questions the documents raise", it becomes apparent that this was his original plan, and he's obsessed with this thing. So the long and short of it is that Rather was relying on the smear effect monopolizing the media and eclipsing the doubt about the authenticity of the documents. He thought wrong, and he's screwed.

442 posted on 09/15/2004 11:42:52 PM PDT by TheCrusader ("the frenzy of the Mohammedans has devastated the churches of God" Pope Urban II (c 1097 a.d.))
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To: Common Tator
"Can you imagine anyone with much skill doing this bad a forgery? Doing it on Microsoft word? If you are 50 years old or older how do you fail to remember that computer printers are not typewriters? If you are in your 20s don't you research what was in use in 1973? Would I try to take a picture of a guy in 1973 by having him sitting in a 1976 car? This whole thing does not ring true.

The more I think about this the more I think this must be some sort of setup or con act. I wonder if someone really hates Rather. Perhaps a former employee of CBS news. Could it be that CBS bought the story? Could CBS have had Rathers daughter offering to buy dirt on Dubya?Could someone think hey a half hour's work at Kinkos and a pitch to Rathers daughter, would be followed by smome cash from Rather? What else explains the story? Could Kerry have been offering bucks for dirt on Bush and an enterprising Word user... decided to try to make a few bucks?... and they fell for it?

What if the Kerry Campaign was trying to buy dirt on Bush .. and bought a forgery. What if the Kerry people vouched for the fake Documents being valid. Would Rather believe a top Kerry staffer over his own hired experts?

It appears Rather fell for some sort of Con, and is now between a rock and a hard place.

Something has to explain CBS buying these very sloppy forgeries. The source had to be very very believable to CBS."


The conspiracy theory only works if you know CBS and Dan Rather are not going to verify the authenticy of the documents.
498 posted on 09/16/2004 3:44:52 AM PDT by Beckwith (John Kerry, sign the Form 180 petition at http://www.SignForm180.com)
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To: Common Tator

I totally agree with you. This is too amateurish. My take is that it's the Clintons.


514 posted on 09/16/2004 4:39:39 AM PDT by jammer
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To: Common Tator

I have had a lot of dealings with disgruntled ex-military men as they seek government benefits. In cases where such a person is suffering from some ill-defined physical or mental condition some years after his military service and tries to relate his condition to something that happened in military service for the purpose of receiving VA benefits, I have observed a general pattern of behavior. Typically, these people show signs of paranoia and delusional thinking. They will go to great lengths to try to establish the necessary connection between the alleged malady and active military service to qualify for benefits.

I have heard stories that claimant was on a "secret mission" for which there is no record, that the veteran's Form DD-214 military service record have been mysteriously altered, that medals were awarded for heroism but never received, that military medical doctors have covered up for the VA, etc. The most amazing characteristic of such people is their tenacity and compulsion to get even. Without exception, the crusade to get the benefits which they see as well deserved becomes a life-long endeavor. Having been "wronged" themselves, they see no problem with forging records or falsely swearing to facts to support their claims. I have seen it over and over. Vindictiveness is too mild a word to describe the mind-set I have observed over and over again.

Burkett seems to fit the profile to a tee. He is not running a scam seeking to embarrass CBS; he is simply continuing his crusade to get even with those he blames for screwing him over years ago. Bush and TANG are his targets here--not CBS.

That Burkett could produce a sloppy, inept forgery is not surprising. The question I have are these: (1) Who suggested to Burkett that he would have to have "documents" to be taken seriously in his claims against Bush; and (2) Was it CBS hubris that caused them to gobble up these forgeries and put them on the air? In other words, did CBS actually recognize the memos as fakes (or at least strongly suspect it), yet went with to story to hurt Bush, thinking they could pull it off?


523 posted on 09/16/2004 5:12:24 AM PDT by San Jacinto ("This is Dan Rather---'forging' ahead'")
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To: Common Tator

It appears Rather fell for some sort of Con, and is now between a rock and a hard place.

The real problem with this for Danny boy is that HE is the alleged professional here.

HE should have checked more thoroughly

HE should have done all the legwork

HE should have known the difference between MS Word and a 1970's style typewritten page.

HE did none of those things because he was so bound and determined that these memos were true.

The Professional was scooped by amateurs and will end up paying the price of his failure.

Sic Semper Tyrannus


540 posted on 09/16/2004 5:58:35 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Goodnight Chesty, wherever you may be.)
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