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1 posted on 09/11/2004 5:33:35 PM PDT by dickmc
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To: dickmc
What needs to be done is to do a two column comparison. On the left put all the evidence that points to forgery and on the right, all the evidence that points to authenticity.

Actually, now that I think about it, I think the right margin on the page already contains the all evidence that points to authenticity.

Never mind.

2 posted on 09/11/2004 5:37:39 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: dickmc

3 posted on 09/11/2004 5:38:30 PM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: dickmc

New point. If the document was a copy to file, then it would have been on carbon paper, not photocopy. Photocopy machines very rare in 1972-73, everybody used carbon paper.


4 posted on 09/11/2004 5:39:31 PM PDT by CobaltBlue
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To: dickmc

And under the topic of "unintended consequences", everyone
needs to be aware that the extensive internet debunking of
the CBS memos has now trained the original authors of these
forgeries in just how to create more credible documents.

ANY documents from the DNC/Kerry/CBS/etc. between now and
the election are to be treated as probable forgeries until
their provenance and authenticity is demonstrated to
courtroom standards (something CBS will not, and cannot
do for the present bird cage liners they are relying on).


6 posted on 09/11/2004 5:40:06 PM PDT by Boundless
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To: dickmc

To be added in your #e "Other issues (veracity of experts, etc.)"

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/007804.php

Slow-Motion Train Wreck

We noted earlier that the Boston Globe cited Dr. Philip Bouffard as its prime source for the claim that the forged CBS documents were created on a typewriter, but that Dr. Bouffard has now complained that the Boston Globe misquoted him and that in fact, "There are all kinds of things that say that this is not a typewriter."
Now, unbelievably, CBS News is relying on the Globe's misquotation of Dr. Bouffard to shore up their own untenable claims of the documents' authenticity! I guess I'm beyond being shocked by anything CBS News does, but they must have known that Bouffard has complained about the Globe's misuse of his name.
This is, of course, a sign of CBS's desperation, but it is revealing in this respect: CBS claims to have thoroughly investigated and validated the documents before they ran their story. Yet the key witness they relied on Gen. Bobby Hodges, has said that he was lied to by CBS News and that in fact, he things the documents are forgeries. Notwithstanding their supposed investigation, CBS is so hard up for ammunition to support their position that they have to repeat an already-exposed lie by the Globe.


7 posted on 09/11/2004 5:41:33 PM PDT by Republican Red (We're going to win one for the gipper...they're going to lose one for the flipper)
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To: dickmc

Know for a fact that when I worked for the military and civilian govts in the 70s, we used 8x10.5 paper size.


9 posted on 09/11/2004 5:43:20 PM PDT by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: dickmc
I would appreciate some editing help by a wordsmith having Excel97. After the last 48 hours this is now all looking the same. This has been reduced to an Excel97 Spreadsheet with a single row for each line and all the HTML coding on the lines. Thus, you can drag the lines up and down and then simply copy a single column and paste into the Free Republic posting box with no further changes. Don't know how to do HTML tables so this is the best I can do to make it easy.

If you can help out by doing some editing of the results of this posting, send me a private reply and I'll E-Mail the small Excel spreadsheet file to you. Also, it should be relatively easy to make a final MSWord document by pasting the rows and removing the few html format characters.

Unfortunately you can not just simply copy this posting itself into Excel to edit and move lines around as the HTML codes don't copy and you get multiple lines per item.

Regards,

Dick
10 posted on 09/11/2004 5:44:33 PM PDT by dickmc
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To: dickmc

Another item for your "e" #39 about Matley - he has admitted to looking only at copy yet he was quoted as saying you can;t authorize a document with a copy (very Kerry-esque)

MATLEY CONFIRMS DOCUMENTS WERE COPIES [Byron York]
The New York Times interviewed CBS documents expert Marcel Matley, who confirmed that the documents the network gave him were photocopies -- and poor ones at that. According to the paper:

"Mr. Matley said the documents the network sent him were so deteriorated from copying that it was impossible to identify the typeface." '''It's sheer speculation to say that you couldn't have done that until a computer came along,'' he said."

"As a result, he said, he focused on the signatures. CBS sent him the four newfound documents, as well as others that have been verified as signed by Colonel Killian. 'There were significant similarities and the differences were insignificant,' he said in the configuration of letters and the angle of the writing."

Meanwhile, the Washington Post reported that, "Matley said last night that a '60 Minutes'
executive had asked him not to give interviews."

http://www.nationalreview.com/thecorner/corner.asp



BACK TO THE CBS MEMOS
The only expert cited by CBS in this case, Marcel Matley, wrote in the September 27, 2002 issue of the journal, "The Practical Litigator":
In fact, modern copiers and computer printers are so good that they permit easy fabrication of quality forgeries. From a copy, the document examiner cannot authenticate the unseen original but may well be able to determine that the unseen original is false. Further, a definite finding of authenticity for a signature is not possible from a photocopy, while a definite finding of falsity is possible.
Attempting to authenticate a signature from a photocopy is exactly what Matley did for CBS.
Game over.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/atomicpossum/segami/danny.jpg


11 posted on 09/11/2004 5:44:52 PM PDT by Republican Red (We're going to win one for the gipper...they're going to lose one for the flipper)
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To: dickmc

'h' in the superscripted 'th' is a different shape than the rest of the 'h' characters. That would have required a selectric ball to be changed several times in creating the document which for a personal memo of some sort is like the chance of the sun coming up in the west tommorrow morning.


12 posted on 09/11/2004 5:45:49 PM PDT by judywillow
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To: dickmc

Actually the font is more likely to be Palatino Lintotype than Times New Roman as discussed here http://qando.net/blog/ . This doesn't make any less fake, however.


13 posted on 09/11/2004 5:46:22 PM PDT by neutrality
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To: dickmc
22. It would have been nearly impossible to center a letterhead with proportional spacing without a computer (not impossible, but for Killian, who did not type, improbable).

22 and 69 are the same. Another point about the centering is that it is the same down to the pixel on two memos typed three months apart and in modern documents created with MS Word. It's hard to say which feat is more improbable. Killian not only matched himself exactly, down to the pixel, two months apart, but matched a technology not even invented.

14 posted on 09/11/2004 5:48:07 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: dickmc

The distortion in the forgery could be due to optics in the copier. This is seen clearly on the LGF site: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=12551_One_More_CBS_Document_Example where the document expands roughly around the word "sugar" in the middle of it. The likely cause is optical copying after printing.


15 posted on 09/11/2004 5:49:59 PM PDT by palmer (Solutions, not just slogans -JFKerry)
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To: dickmc

More Matley info to add in E #39

Rather says Matley vouched for 4 memos, Matley says he vouched for only one.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1213177/posts


16 posted on 09/11/2004 5:51:58 PM PDT by Republican Red (We're going to win one for the gipper...they're going to lose one for the flipper)
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To: dickmc
68. The only device that could have produced the superscripted "th" in that period and proportional type in that timeframe would have been a Selectric Composer. This is not a typewriter but is used for special publication composing and cost some $4,000 then ($23,000 today) and was incredibly difficult to operate. The machine basically consisted of an IBM Selectric typewriter with a 3-1/2 ft. high upright case containing the magnetic tape reader reading long spools of magnetic tape in cartridges. It also needed a special IBM service person above and beyond repairing typewriters. It is not clear that the AirForce had even three units at that time and the TANG clearly did not. To suggest that Col Killian, who could barely type and even if he could, he would never have been able to operate one of these machines is absurd. The operating manual is here at http://www.ibmcomposer.org/docs/Electronic%20Composer%20Operating%20Instructions.pdf.

This point is inaccurate. Do more homework. It has been covered extensively on FR. Look for references to an "IBM Executive".

IBM typewriter with proportional spacing was introduced in 1941.

IBM announces the Electromatic Model 04 electric typewriter, featuring the revolutionary concept of proportional spacing. By assigning varied rather than uniform spacing to different sized characters, the Type 4 recreated the appearance of a printed page, an effect that was further enhanced by a typewriter ribbon innovation that produced clearer, sharper words on the page. The proportional spacing feature became a staple of the IBM Executive series typewriters.

http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/history/year_1941.html

On the Executive, you could optionally have removable type-bars. This is somewhat like later Smith-Corona portables which have removable type-slugs on the two outermost type-bars, with corresponding changeable keytop caps. In this case, though, it's the whole type-bar.

http://www.geocities.com/wbd641/TypeManuals2.html


17 posted on 09/11/2004 5:52:20 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: dickmc

you need to put that guys one words into use he wrote a paper saying that you cant use a copy of a signature to prove if a document is real. And that is the the same guy that CBS USED! LOL you can find a link to that article on FR


18 posted on 09/11/2004 5:53:03 PM PDT by FesterUSMC
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To: dickmc
Have we listed CBS' failure to even describe how these documents went from Killian 32 years ago (supposedly) to CBS? This issue is heightened by CBS only having a copy. Where oh where is any original, and what explanation was given by the source for only having copies?

The REAL BIG issue is the reports stating these docs came from the DNC to the Kerrry Campaign to CBS. CBS would have to realize that revealing this would totally undermine CBS, Kerry, and the documents. And CBS knows that taking easily forged copies from the Kerry Campaign is irresponsible. This whole thing really stinks.

19 posted on 09/11/2004 5:53:37 PM PDT by Williams
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To: dickmc

Thank you for doing this. I have been wanting to see, in ONE location, a summary of all the likely errors and inconsistencies of the Killian memos.

Bookmarked.


21 posted on 09/11/2004 5:55:01 PM PDT by Choose Ye This Day ("We showed weakness, and weak people are beaten."--Putin / "A more sensitive war on terror." --Kerry)
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To: dickmc

Has anyone else noticed that when you open the CBS documents with the full version of Acrobat 6 a notice pops up that indicates the document was created with Photoshop?


22 posted on 09/11/2004 5:55:38 PM PDT by GOP Lawyer
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To: dickmc
23. Bush's grade would be abbreviated "1Lt" not "1stLt"

Not necessarily true.

http://www.cis.net/~coldfeet/doc4.gif <-- One (1st Lt)

23 posted on 09/11/2004 5:56:46 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: dickmc
33. Why no three hole punches evident at the top of the page?

Holes at the top number two, not three. Holes at the sides will number 3 or 5.

24 posted on 09/11/2004 5:58:10 PM PDT by Cboldt
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