Posted on 09/11/2004 11:12:23 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
Frank Jones says he's angry about newly revealed memos that indicate President Bush got preferential treatment in the Air National Guard during the Vietnam war, but he's not surprised by favoritism in the Guard.
Jones, a Republican from Troy, N.Y., served in Vietnam in 1970 and 1971 before doing 16 years in the Guard himself. As the presidential election nears, Jones says controversy over both candidates' military records and the mounting death toll in Iraq are important issues.
"I'm really in neither camp at this point," he said. "However, I do see a direct correlation to Vietnam. The body count is really starting to get to me."
Some current and retired members of the National Guard and other military services say the newly revealed Bush documents do not bother them, while others say they are troubling.
The documents, which became fodder for Democratic critics last week, indicate Bush was suspended from flying with his Texas Air National Guard unit because he missed a medical exam and that he missed six months of training. Questions have been raised about the documents' authenticity.
Lt. Col. Jim Driscoll, spokesman for the Georgia Army National Guard, said retired service members may comment on political issues such as the Bush documents, but most current reservists and active-duty service members will hesitate to voice their political opinions.
"It would be inappropriate," he said. "The president is our commander-in-chief and so we have to be very careful from an ethical perspective of how we express our political opinions."
Some who served in the National Guard say it is common practice to miss drills - even up to six months - because of job conflicts, family problems or illness.
Ralph Bradley, 56, a Republican from Albany who served three years in Vietnam in the Air Force and 17 years in the Georgia Army National Guard, said members are encouraged to make up drills so they don't lose pay or retirement benefits.
"There's all kinds of situations ... that cause a person to go out of state for a period of time," he said.
Army Reserve Sgt. Tim Wilding, 37, of Jefferson City, Mo., agreed.
Back home for two weeks of leave from Iraq, Wilding said he remains a staunch Bush supporter despite allegations Bush may have tried to get out of Guard drills for several months in 1972.
"A lot of guys don't serve for four or five months at a time," he said. "They've got other stuff going on. They'll make it up later on, or they just won't get paid. That's really no big deal to a lot of National Guard soldiers."
Allegations of suspect conduct during the Vietnam war also have been leveled at John Kerry, who won three Purple Hearts, a Silver Star and a Bronze Star in Vietnam.
A group sponsoring television ads challenging his wartime record contends Kerry's own gunfire caused the wound that brought his first Purple Heart. Navy records and other veterans do not support the charge.
Ahmad Majied of Albany says the latest allegations about Bush's military record are more troubling to him than allegations about service honors leveled at Democratic challenger Kerry.
Majied, a Democrat from Albany who served 30 years in the Navy, including five years as a SEAL in Vietnam, said the memos support his belief that Bush was a "playboy" during his service years.
"He had enough money to get what he wanted," Majied said. "I think his main concern was not to go to Southeast Asia. I bet he never dreamed it would come back to haunt him."
Neal Eubanks of Leesburg, who served 39 years in the military - 23 in the Air Force and 16 in the Georgia Army National Guard - said the presidential candidates should move beyond their military records and focus on the issues, such as the economy and unemployment.
"You don't see Korean veterans or World War II veterans or Grenada veterans always talking about 'I served here and I served there,'" said Eubanks, 67, a Bush supporter.
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Associated Press writers Russ Bynum in Savannah, Ga., David Lieb in Jefferson City, Mo., and Michael Gormley in Albany, N.Y., contributed to this report.
Sue CBS!!
That's my point - I can't imagine a SEAL saying this stuff. Too, I may be off base, but I am not aware of any 5-tour SEALs in RVN. I could be wrong, but I've not heard of any. Two and maybe three tours, but 5? I'm not so sure about that. Besides, a guy who was in the USN for 30 years, with "5 years" in-country in RVN, is a career fellow, not likely to support a bugout artist like our Swiftboat hero "Captain Purple Heart".
They absolutely are the enemy. What Dan Rather has done, in my opinion, wasn't driven by hate or even dirty politics, it was driven by an ideology that believes if Bush succeeds globally in the war against terrorism they lose. As far as I am concerned Rather has performed the equivalent of a suicide bomb attack, offering not his life but his reputation. Now why would a man do that?
They know most people won't read past the first paragraph.
C'mon....give the repeat key a break.
I guess we know what is in Terry McAuliffe's fax today.
For some reason I am put in mind of Dr Who and the Daleks. Someone has told all the little news Daleks that they must "exterminate" the phony memo story... and the phony purple heart story... the phony silver star story... the phony "V" device story... phony combat vet Tom Harkin... phony hero Max Cleland.
The sad thing to me is that these guys all had stuff in their service to be proud of but they had to reach for more.
One of the guys in the story is ID'd as a Democrat and a "30-year Navy SEAL with 5 years in Vietnam." What say ye, Matt? I found his home address and phone and asked Authentiseal if he's on the up and up. We'll know shortly.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
The guy quoted as being from "Albany" (Ahmad Majied) is in the Albany phone book. Albany, Georgia.
The AP is so ate-up they can't tell what state they are in. Let me suggest to them: go to a diner in the morning. If most plates have grits on them you are not in Albany, NY.
Some Americans are sophisticated enough to distinguish a Georgian from a New Yorker simply by listening to them speak, but that's a black art we can scarcely expect the "Jimmy Olson, cub reporters" of the AP to master.
Another approach is to drive really fast and see what state seal is on the ticket the nice trooper gives you.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
Sensible of you. If he's a Marine, I'm the Archbishop of Canterbury. Rather joined the Marines but did not complete boot camp. The whole thing is documented in Burkett and Whitley's book Stolen Valor. Can't recommend it too highly.
They even have The Dan's Parris Island mug shot in the book.
d.o.l.
Criminal NUmber 18F
That begs for a caption contest! By the way, not that the USMC needs me to defend its honour, but The Dan was never The Marine. He was a quitter.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
This is apalling. The editor of each and every one of those newspapers that ran this thing is guilty of the same thing as Rather. Not one of them is fit to continue in his or her job.
http://www.veriseal.org , http://www.authentiseal.org and http://www.navyseals.com
from the thread Army honors Dallas man who exposed fake records (STOLEN VALOR Author - Vietnam Vet "Jug" Burkett)
I see our guy Criminal Number 18F is already on the case. If this guy is a phony, let's be sure and let the AP "reporter" know that his boy got busted.
I didn't read the thread yet, let me check.
I never heard of a "Majied" in any SEAL documents or unit histories. Five years in VN? Highly doubtful. VN era SEAL platoons rotated on 6 month tours, not years. There were very few SEALs in country prior to 66 or after 72, damn few. Most of their deployments were 67-71. I heard of SEALs with three tours, (6 month each,) but how could you rack up "five years in VN?" Sounds like a fake to me. Let us know what authentiseal comes up with.
See this thread. My post was #27 but the admins moved it to the top.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1213298/posts?page=1
Excerpt (not news to any of us, but maybe to some FReepers and blogosphere denizens):
Unless he has undertaken the unlikely action of a full legal name change since his claimed service with the SEAL Teams, I can state conclusively that the man NEVER completed SEAL training, and thus he is not now, nor was he ever a Navy SEAL. While there are other training steps that must be completed on the path to becoming a SEAL, BUD/S training is the first and most vital, and that training course is totally unclassified. Without having first completed BUD/S training, a man cannot go on to become a SEAL. There are definitely secret SEAL missions, but despite anything the man might have said, there are NO secret SEALs.
Archangelsk, check out another Army-Navy joint special operation brought to a successful conclusion. Another phony outed. PHONY Majied, like PHONY Harkin backs THE GRAND SULTAN OF ALL PHONIES Kerry.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
How do we get the word to these guys who wrote this?
"Associated Press writers Russ Bynum in Savannah, Ga., David Lieb in Jefferson City, Mo., and Michael Gormley in Albany, N.Y., contributed to this report. "
Like the Arabs screaming and crying in their coffee when they found out Al Jizz and Bagdad Bob were lying to them. "How could they?!"
I figured he was a fake "SEAL" when he said he spent 5 years in Viet Nam. Don't hold your breath waiting for the papers to issue a correction though.
But at least we can bust this phoney. I think it's worth a thread on its own, such as "Kerry Backer is Fake SEAL."
Post it up, Travis. Did anyone find out Majied's BUD/S Class...LOL. I bet that weenie AP reporter will be sure to ask that one of every clown who tries to pass himself off as a "former" SEAL from now on. And, ironically, those would only be kerry supporters...; )
I don't want to do it half-cocked, and I don't have time right now to close the loops (find and call the faker to give him a chance to explain it, etc). Hopefully I'll be able to get to it this PM. If you have any more details on the fake frog, let me know so I can incorporate it or use it for research.
Matt
You are correct - better to do your homework and cover all the bases before going "public". If it holds up, though, I think we need to get this out into the MSM, maybe a message to Drudge??? This will benefit all by exposing (further) the MSM bias and their fast-and-loose use of information when they believe it can damage the President but sitting on info (Swiftboat vets, for example) when it is "tabloid" material.
Keep up the good work.
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