WHO faked the "60 Minutes" documents?

[Lunatic Fringe]

Who produced these documents???

CBS? The Kerry campaign? MoveOn.org? The White House? The mafia?

[Barlowmaker]

Al Gore?

[PeoplesRepublicOfWashington]

The font matches exactly one frequently used by the Kerry Kampaign.

[bayourod]

Well he did invent the typewriter.

[Domangart]

What I always wondered is do these guys have any letterhead? We always used it. Notice the use of the word billet. The AF had a billeting officer whose office issued out rooms or a house. AF Manpower would use the term position. The Navy people who I worked with talked of a billet as a assignment to a specific position on a ship or shore. My money is on someone who was in the Navy.
This doesn't even get into watermarks.

[flaglady47]

Just sent this e-mail to CBS:

Either your station has been had, or you are insidious liars using forged documents in your attempt to smear George Bush. Which is it? Are you suckers and fools, or are you so biased (which is so obvious) that you will run with anything at all as long as it smears President Bush? Get your fonts right, oh, excuse me, your facts right, CBS. Aren't you delighted that Dan Rather talked you into going with these documents in his eagerness to continue his venom towards the Republican party and his love affair with the Democratic Party?

You, CBS, are unscrupulous MSM whores. You sincerely make me sick. Have a nice day tomorrow retracting all your lies. Sincerely, a Midwesterner who still believes in honesty and values, something you know nothing about.

[Barlowmaker]

"My Divinity School inventions in superscript Time Roman typewriter fonts have always been overlooked by my invention of the Internet and acute human sweating."

[Barlowmaker]

Wow she's pretty! Any idea how I can get in touch?

[VietVet]

I cannot believe that See B.S. still has this story up, with copies of the 'documents', after all the question that has been placed on there validity. I guess they are not going to retract, nor admit that they were taken in by such crude forgeries.

I was a Army National Guard Supply/Personnel Technician in the early '70's. I can't speak for sure about USAF/ANG procedure, but by ARNG SOP the date blocks are wrong (should be either DDMMYY, or DD Mon YY); the Signature Blocks are wrong; the memo subject lines, asf are wrong (What officer would put in writing a memo titled "CYA"?); the language is wrong (An officer would request to be excused from attendance at Training Meetings, not ask to get out of going to Drill!). It is disappointing, and a little frightening, to see a major news outlet miss these obvious mistakes, or not be willing to admit them after they were pointed out.

VietVet

[Barlowmaker]

Like dating Eraserhead's sister.

[FranceForBushInAustin]

LOL

[Mad Dawgg]

"Well, the maroons over on the DUmpster say the fakes were planted on unsuspecting CBS by the nefarious Karl Rove!"

Hehehe

[Fedora]

No problem; I followed you. If you're going to pursue that line of speculation, I think you'd have to tie it into CBS and the DNC somehow. Somewhere up the chain there has to be a link between the forger, the DNC, and CBS--and of course Ben Barnes. Who have Barnes' recent associates been?

[Solar Wind]

" This had to be a freelancer, because Rather has been pitching the segment for awhile now. It didn't get hatched last week.
We not even recognize the name of the person who did it. "

Saved,

Good comment. I think you have nailed it. Now that it is obvious, at least to us, that these are sloppy fakes it is interesting to speculate who actually did this and if we ever will find out. I think that there is a large chance that we will never know.

Like many on this forum I am a student of the opposition and their tactics. It is tempting to think that this is all a lot more coordinated than it is. I think that a lot of these things grow up out of the culture and assumptions that many leftist live in. I find it astounding that many leftists actually believe that Bush is stupid, that conservatives are robots and that Rove is the evil mastermind behind it all. They are not just name calling. It is their world view.

Hugh Hewitt wrote on his blog recently about the dynamics of the swift boat controversy. He pointed out that the power of what was happening was that is was not heavily coordinated but that many like minded groups were working on similar goals. These groups, SBVT, bloggers, talk radio and Internet groups began to swarm around the opposition and get inside their OODA loop. See http://www.mindsim.com/MindSim/Corporate/OODA.html

The revolutionary aspect of this phenomenon that we are seeing unfold in front of us each day is that it is not centrally coordinated.

Likewise in almost a bizzaro mirror of this the opposition has a culture where underlings, especially those who want to be noticed, are encouraged to pull off stunts on their own. They have many examples to follow of dirty tricks being pulled off and then the authors being rewarded by becoming behind the scene players. But if something goes wrong the hapless stooge is hung out to dry.

A couple of years ago a video tape of Bush practicing for a debate was sent to an upper Democratic party official. The intent of the sender was obvious: 'Here is what Bush is going to do in the debates, get this to the right people and use it to defeat him.'

Unfortunately, for the sender, the official didn't take the bait and turned it over to the authorities. The perp was found to be a low level Democratic party hack and past aide to Democratic party officials. I was a crude job. She was video taped mailing it from the downtown Austin TX Post Office by the surveillance system while on an errand from work. She botched it and no one came to her rescue. I believe that she eventually did some time for it.

You nailed it. It is an independent job, but this time the Kerry campaign and CBS did take the bait. They wanted it to be true too badly and were blinded. These people really think that we are stupid for supporting Bush and for loving America. They really think that they are so much smarter. They really believe that they will not be found out or if they are it will be hushed up.

Most of all they simply cannot understand the deep level, grass roots revolution that is going on in America right now. They do not understand the passion of the SBVT that will not be stopped. They do not understand the bloggers. They do not understand what has been happening on the Internet these last few years. They come to FR, they read our posts yet they simple do not understand what they are looking at. If they did they would have never tried to pull off such a lame forgery as this.

Mr Sol

[Domangart]

NATO standard date 10 Sept 04. Non service US date Sept 10 2004. Dead giveaway.

[Old Sarge]

I maintain that She Who Must Not Be Named is still prepared to create an opportunity to run this year to regain the power She thinks is rightly Hers.

"Kerry as a Stalking Horse" is a viable concept. The obvious use of Wesley Crusher Clark as a stalking horse was obvious - most of his staff were Clintonistas. Now, look at JF'nK and HIS staff: they're back in the mix.

This might be the event She was hinting coyly at a few weeks ago: Kerry faltering so badly, that She steps in to save The Party. They did it for Lautenberg, they did it for Carnahan. The precedent is on the books and established - and that's how the laywers will look at it, including SCOTUS.

[Old Sarge]

Thank God for the internet. Ten years ago they would have gotten away with this $h*t.

I think that twelve years ago, they may have. We'd never know. But FR is here now!

[Old Sarge]

I prefer voodoo doll, myself...

[Liz]

LOL.......so Pantload Berger is at it again.

Man, the guy's a glutton for punishment.

[Mannaggia l'America]

John Forbes Forged Kerry

[PJ-Comix]

According to many DUmmies, KARL ROVE forged those documents. I kid you not! Check out these recent DUmmie commentaries below about the forgery scandal:

If this is a forgery, I'm sure it's another in a long line of Karl Rove's stunts. But it's not a forgery. Come on, CBS vetted it with experts, of which there must be many. On the other hand, the detractors are all right-wing bloggers. (Who you know will attack anything that knocks bush.)

My only question Is how thoroughly did CBS review these documents? How many experts did they show these documents to before going on with the story? What were their background and area of expertise?

CBS is a creditable news source. They didn't get that way by being stupid. These docs were probably gone over with a fine tooth comb until they were sure it didn't have any nits.

what document? it doesn't matter. the guy's a deserter who kills for fun he is doomed to failure I don't care if they say it was hand-typed by Rove and given to Rather by Andrew Card dressed as Huggy Bear.

So Rove gave them to CBS? Is CBS that gullible?

There are real docs that the Whitehouse had and they created forgery forms of these docs and passed them off to discredit the real ones if they ever surfaced. It mucks it up enough that if real versions surfaced, noone would ever believe it - the "forgery" meme is planted.

I agree - its a fraud Walt has showed two other era documents "as proof" that have the superscripted "th" and none of them even closely resemble the document 60 mins had - they fell for it hook line and sinker. They look completely different in the way it was done. If I knew how to PSP them side by side I would but I am looking at them now and this 60 mins thing was a fraud and Rove is ROFL at them.

Oh, please. Like a bunch of amateurs on the Internet would be able to figure out something that CBS News stuck its neck out over and never thought to investigate. Riiight.

Yikes. I started out thinking this was a Rove plant, after reading http://www.warblogging.com / - then I was convinced it wasn't. I've been crazy all day about this thing. Now I'm back where I started. I need to be sedated.

What's with all you paranoid people? Get a grip!!! This is exactly what goo defence attorneys do...CREATE DOUBT!!!! There's absolutely no reason to think these doxs are forgeries! NONE!!!

Document is forgery -- this can become the basis of an allegation that the whitehouse continues to deceive the public by lying to us, sometimes in very clever ways.

CBS has to have something to substantiate the authenticity of the memos. If it doesn't, it has cost itself any credibility it had. Obviously, this wouldn't be good for a it's news division. CBS' story had to be thoroughly vetted!

Oh good GOD! Stop and think for a moment...IF it were discovered that they were a forgery then the media would HOT after the story of who did it and why. The blowback from that would be bigger than the actual story.

What crap. The issue is are they believable? Hell yes. And what the f*ck does a wife or son for that matter really know about husband/dad. Well sh*t, let's ask Hillary. What's really Rovian is to suggest the documents are fake. Chimp has been an underachiever his whole goddamn life, much to our pain, so why would they NOT be authentic?