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Are the CBS National Guard Documents Fake? (UPDATED: "At Least" 90% Positive They're Fake)
INDC Journal ^
| 9/10/04
| Bill
Posted on 09/09/2004 1:22:10 PM PDT by TastyManatees
click here to read article
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To: mabelkitty; All
Those two are my biggest things, too. I've been a typist for many years, since at least 1969. Those weren't on any typewriter back in those days. IBM selectric had interchangeable balls who MAYBE could have been switched - mid-stream - while typing - (ya, right, like anyone would do that) - change balls, then change back againt to type the rest, and then change again. They were a pain to change. Superscript and smart quotes weren't part of IBM Selectric's regular balls. I worked for a state government office back then. No money available for frivolities. I highly doubt that national government had better equipment.
3 - small "th" single element not generally available
4 - Smart quotes. Curved apostrophes and quotation marks were not available
121
posted on
09/09/2004 7:21:53 PM PDT
by
JLO
To: Motherbear
Hi, can you post a link to it? I'd like to see it, but don't want to wade around too much and get muddied up.
Not to worry if you don't have it handy. I'll check it out if I get curious. Thanks for posting.
122
posted on
09/09/2004 7:26:05 PM PDT
by
JLO
To: JLO
The second line has 111th with the superscript th, and was dated 1968. All the rest have 111th with no superscript. They were obviously written on different typewriters at different times, but it obviously was possible to get a superscript in 1968, as these are official docs, supposedly. Of course the image was linked to from the DUmmy site, so who knows if it is real.
To: JLO
124
posted on
09/09/2004 7:26:40 PM PDT
by
Chieftain
(Support the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and expose Hanoi John's FRAUD!)
To: JLO
Thanks for the GREAT INSIGHT, JLO!
125
posted on
09/09/2004 7:27:29 PM PDT
by
Chieftain
(Support the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and expose Hanoi John's FRAUD!)
To: RightField; All
Old memories, LOL!
"Is there any significance to the fact that the 'th' in the very top title line is not the small font superscript like in the body of the document? Would it have been standard procedure to type the 'th' in two different ways. " Superscript and subscript could NOT have been in a LOWER CASE. It wasn't available, as I recall in a Selectric ball.
We had to use small letters, and manually adjust the carriage about a half a notch.
---
I'm with you RightField; I recall that also! I was taught to use lower case 'th'. I think that was the clinker!
126
posted on
09/09/2004 7:38:48 PM PDT
by
JLO
To: mabelkitty
29 - what are the chances that military officer had very expensive (at that time) proportionally spacing TYPESETTER at his disposal instead of "ordinary" typewriter? Typesetters were used only by publishing and typesetting places. Much more expensive than Selectrics.
Definitely no way to perfectly lineup with today's computer produced output. Major stupid fake!
My first "typesetter" was Selectric modified with addition of magnets being run by Apple II, before daisy wheels and dot matrix printers. IBM had version of selectrics that were used as computer terminal, no proportional spacing.
Bunch of lying democRAT skunks, how well orchestrated, from head sKerry sKunk all the way to revolting spineless media prostitutes.
God Bless President Bush, few media decent and this J. Robinson baby - FReepy FReepers! Let's Roll!
To: SirChas
"You also have to take into account the device (printer) that the document is printed on. That may account for things such as the "th" (like in 14th) not lining up exactly."
Perhaps. However, the same effect can be reproduced in MS Word. With minimal effort, a forger could easily raise or lower typed characters, regular or superscript, with ease to give a document a greater feel of having been originally typed.
One need only go in MS Word to FORMAT, then select FONT, then select the CHARACTER SPACING tab. On this tab you can play with the Position drop down to raise or lower a single letter and or superscipt. You can even select how many "points" to lower it by. The default on my computer is to 3pts when raising or lowering characters, but this can be increased or decreased.
Bottom line, one can use Word to reproduce the effect of the raised superscript, or even letters following slightly below other characters on the same line - mimicking type.
I was able to do this in a few seconds to raise the superscript "th" higher than the default setting, or to lower or raise characters on a given line. I'm not a techie type, so I don't know how to post the example to FreeRepublic, but anyone with Word can reproduce the effect per the instructions above.
To: Chummy
Here is a sampling of the misinformation put forth on these threads that has already been debunked:
Budding Myth #1: "Proportional fonts were not available til the 80's."
Debunked: Proportional fonts were available on IBM typewriters in 1941.
Budding Myth #2: "Times New Roman font wasn't invented until 1988."
Debunked: The Times New Roman font was designed in 1931 by Stanley Morison, Typographical Advisor to the Monotype Corporation, with the assistance of draughtsman Victor Lardent.
Budding Myth #3: "There was no '4' available without a foot and the top closed."
Debunked: The IBM Selectric Composer Pressman Roman (Times New Roman) font of 1968 has exactly the right '4'.
Budding Myth #4: "The document was altered because one of the 'y's' is different from another 'y'."
Debunked: All typos made with typewriters were corrected by "altering" the document.
Budding Myth #5: "You need to use a complicated guage system to backspace with an IBM Selectric Composer typewriter."
Debunked: The IBM Selectric had a memory system that automatically adjusted the backstroke to exactly match the letter widths of the previously typed text as far back as 1968.
Budding Myth #6: "The type of typewriter that could do this would have cost $20,000 dollars back then."
Debunked: At least one type of typewriter that could do this was available for around $300.
These may be forgeries, but not because of any of the above reasons.
To: rocklobster11; All
Here's my recollection how we did it along time ago. Subscript or Superscript - on a manual typewriter: you switched from Caps Lock On over to lower case. That was when I was a legal secretary. Then, you manually 'notched' up 1/2 roll on the typewriter. And, I was always taught to put the lowercase (subscript) or uppercase (superscript) in lower case letters. Superscript was 1/2 notch above the line; subscript was 1/2 notch below. AND in parentheses - ALWAYS!
That's how it was in the early 70's. That's my personal story, and I'm sticking to it. LOL. I was taught by the STATE government, at the time where I worked, that this was THE correct way. Low-grade typist I was, back then.
I'd guess all government agencies, state and federal, were similar then, as far as that paperwork goes.
Good grief, how times have changed, thank God.
130
posted on
09/09/2004 10:08:32 PM PDT
by
JLO
To: TastyManatees
131
posted on
09/10/2004 6:56:07 AM PDT
by
buffyt
(You don't create terrorists by fighting back. You defeat the terrorists by fighting back. ~GWBush~)
To: TaxRelief
I'm not sure why you posed these to me, but I'll take a shot at your attempt to "debunk...budding myth"s.
Here is a sampling of the misinformation put forth on these threads that has already been debunked:
Budding Myth #1: "Proportional fonts were not available til the 80's." Debunked: Proportional fonts were available on IBM typewriters in 1941.
This takes out of context the sum of the whole; the documents feature proportional fonts in addition to superscripting, the font used, and so forth.
Budding Myth #2: "Times New Roman font wasn't invented until 1988." Debunked: The Times New Roman font was designed in 1931 by Stanley Morison, Typographical Advisor to the Monotype Corporation, with the assistance of draughtsman Victor Lardent.
The date of the creation of TNR I've not questioned, but rather its use on a typewriter contemporary to the documents' authorship. And again, one must consider the whole circumstances.
Budding Myth #3: "There was no '4' available without a foot and the top closed." Debunked: The IBM Selectric Composer Pressman Roman (Times New Roman) font of 1968 has exactly the right '4'.
Show an example.
Budding Myth #4: "The document was altered because one of the 'y's' is different from another 'y'." Debunked: All typos made with typewriters were corrected by "altering" the document.
Correcting a document with the same typewriter would result in characters identical, or nearly so, to the others.
Budding Myth #5: "You need to use a complicated guage system to backspace with an IBM Selectric Composer typewriter." Debunked: The IBM Selectric had a memory system that automatically adjusted the backstroke to exactly match the letter widths of the previously typed text as far back as 1968.
If one reads how to use the Composer, one would understand the use of the relative term "complicated."
Budding Myth #6: "The type of typewriter that could do this would have cost $20,000 dollars back then." Debunked: At least one type of typewriter that could do this was available for around $300.
What is the equivalent of $300 circa 1972 in $US 2004?
132
posted on
09/10/2004 9:59:46 AM PDT
by
Chummy
(RepublicanAttackSquad.biz: "A vote 4 Kerry is a vote for Osama")
To: harrycarey
Yeah, I've postd in most of the Hiss threads. But there are usually only 1 or 2 people (other than you and me) in the threads who actually know any of the details of the Hiss case.
Venona was a relatively recent news event, so a quite a few more people know the details.
To: cookcounty
Besides, if your opponent is "swinging in the wind" why say something that might change the subject.
To: TastyManatees
Re-visiting a classic- I notice it took this ‘Doctor’ 2 tres to even ntice the raised ‘th’ - the single biggest glaring error showing it is a forgery
135
posted on
12/14/2009 12:05:23 PM PST
by
Mr. K
(Deathly afraid my typos become a freeper catchphrase...I'm series!)
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