West Virginia GOP Elector Robb's Vote May Not Go To Bush

Yes Pete, it is interesting that the same people who spoke about the genius of the Electoral College system when Bush won in 2000 while losing the popular vote will now go into hysterics if an Elector does not vote the same way as his state.

I believe the problem is that we just get tired of fighting the assholes to get them to do what they agreed to do or what the law calls for. We like the electoral system and we like electors to do what they were elected to do. Where is there any inconsistency, save of course for your off the mark question?

(Shamefully speaking about WV laws and my local area)..., a Dem House of Delegates member from this district did the same a few years back, ignoring the will of the voters as one of the five Electoral College voters. Although, granted, it was the will of the Dems she happened to be opposing, and I like the fact that she fractured their party, I hate that the state now has the precedent in place for this to happen again in the Electoral College. (And try as we might, this particular Dem is too powerful to uproot; we can't get her out of office no matter what candidate we can muster to oppose her. Her support comes from the medical community, and from the higher ed institution here which is a huge employer of local people).

That's a good point. If this guy's vote matters, I assume he'll be on board.

I'm assuming you remember 2000. One of Gore's electors withheld her vote, in protest over something or other (I think something with DC).

However she made it clear that it was symbolic, and that if her vote had been important, she would have cast it.

She wanted attention, she failed to get it but for a few seconds.

So you feel that a portion of DC's votes being nullified is OK because it isn't a state? More likely it's because it votes reliably Dem and the elector took a vote away from Gore.

Hmmmm? Sounds like he's fishing for something to me.

Whining about changing your vote is a good way to get attention from the RNC. I wonder what he wants ..??

And .. since these people are appointed, can't they just be replaced ..?? Don't know .. I've been too busy studying computer stuff.

I personally feel that the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, and that there is some voter fraud -- enough to swing a very tight race (a few thousand per state) to the Dems. I think that the GOP has calculated that the extent of the fraud (and the urban areas where it happens) is not enough to be worth the political flak they would take.

I agree with you. However, just because the party leadership decides to work around it and not mention the elephant in the living room doesn't mean that I have to listen to the enemy claim a victory that they didn't win. Truth is still truth no matter who ignores it

(and yes, democrats and their supporters are the enemy. They seek to destroy my way of life and everything that I hold sacred. They are, in most cases, no different than islamic terrorists (ok. I know that was slightly redundant, I could have just said islamics))

That's what the constitution says. The District of Columbia already has too much power. Giving them more would be insane. The Founders made the right decision in breaking DC off from the rest of the Union, and giving them no vote.

EMAIL RECEIVED OF WV REPUBLICAN ACTIVIST:

Friends:

Richie Robb has always marched to a different drummer, but not voting for Bush as a presidential elector is unacceptable. He was approved at the state convention to be an elector FOR George Bush. He should resign as an elector if he doesnt intend on keeping his word.

On Monday, many of you emailed me expressing confusion why Richie Robb attended an anti-Bush concert in Charleston, and then allowed himself to be photographed with participants of the event. I thought maybe the guy liked the Indigo Girls music or something, but apparently there was something more to it. ...

First of all, Richie is wrong about Bush being behind the criticisms of John Kerry's military service. It's the other way around. Kerry and Company are attacking Bush and Cheney over Vietnam. Didnt you hear Kerry the other day attack Dick Cheney's deferments? Hasn't Kerry be the one bragging about his service in a war HE opposed years ago?

The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, who served with Kerry, are the ones questioning Kerry on his military service; NOT Bush. The leader of the group, John O'Neill, doesnt even support Kerry or Bush. He donated 2k to John Edwards in the Primary. This group is NOT, in any way, connected to Bush's campaign, despite media reports to the contrary.

If anyone knows Richie, please set him straight and remind him that he agreed to be a presidential elector FOR President Bush. We, Republicans, hold him to his word.

___________________________

He asks people to email Robb and set him straight.

Republicans heads better reel in this guy and put him in his place now!

Zell Miller didn't take a pledge to the Democratic Party, he took a pledge to the USA. Richie Robb is to vote for the slate he is pledged to. Otherwise it is a fraud. Get it?

I will email him without hesitation. What is the address?

I must add, my email may be a bit more hollow than others: I am not from his township. I am willing, but how do we rally the Charleston people to the cause? How many of them are FReepers?

This Rob must be in the back pockets of Senator Bird who is getting as quacky as quacky can get in my humble opinion!

It is one of the reasons we have an electoral college, so if the unwashed masses elect someone that is dangerous to our country, they are supposed to elect someone else.

Richie Robb is to vote for the slate he is pledged to. Otherwise it is a fraud. Get it?

Unfortunately the only solution is a true direct election of presidents. 3/4 Of states are overrepresented in the electoral college. It just isn't fair.

The West Virginia Republican Party was not a factor in West Virginia Politics until the last few years. To understand how this Electoral College mess arose is quite lengthy. It is the story of why the WV Republican Party chose Robb...

Read about the overall current WV political situation on wvyoungrepublicans.org/wvtoday.html

Our state was cut by loyal Western Virginians during the Civil War.
It was at first a Republican state with the most of the population living in the northern parts of the state (Wheeling, Parkersburg, Clarksburg, Grafton) What is now the southern coalfields was virtually uninhabited except by a few mountain men and livestock farmers.

West Virginia survived on glassmaking, gunpowder, and livestock farming until the very late 1800's. The coal industry popped up from the railroad counties and took over the southern 2/3rds of the state, which was then very desolate and sparsely populated. The out of state coal companies did in fact set in place a nice little empire where roads and schools were built where the coal barons wanted them.

(I am not one of the socialist anti-business A**Holes - I am quite conservative in my beliefs on regulating business, and I am quite sympathetic with the plight of the coal industry today. I am not one of the tree hugging hippies or UMWA-ocrat thugs who denounce Massey Corp. and threaten the lives of nonunion miners)

Back then the coal companies needed labor and coal mining at that time was akin to slavery. They imported immigrants from Eastern Europe, who were herded like cattle straight to the coal camps. Many were shanghaied while they were drunk and passed out in an alley in cities like Prauge or Minsk.

They lived in the company house, were paid in company currency (scrip), and had every need met in the company school, store, or clinic. Miners were expected to work a minimum of 80-90 hours a week and the mortaility rates were akin to WWI infantry. (In fact coal miners were so important, they were not allowed to enter the draft and were encouraged to stay underground rather than fight by the Government)

For a time, in many coal camps if you disobeyed the foreman, you were dead. As a dreg from the poorest regions of Europe, no one cared what happened to you in the coal camps.

The Unions moved in at the turn of the century and the bloodiest internal civil strife since the Civil War took place in the West Virginia the early 20th Century as the UMWA fought Mine Operators. (Read about Blair Mountain – largest post Civil War land battle in US, watch the Movie “Matewan”, or read Bloodletting in Appalachia by Howard B Lee) The gangster wars of Chicago and the Wild West had nothing on Bloody Mingo or Logan.

As a result of the attrocities of some coal companies being made public in the media and the blame of the Depression on Hoover, West Virginia moved into the Democrat column in 1928-1932 and had remained there until today.

Republicans lost WV not on people switching parties, but by hundreds of thousands of European immigrant mining families gaining citizenship and the right to vote. They wanted big brother Government and its New Deal to protect them from big evil capitalists. This is why in West Virginia, the older you are, the more likely you are to be a Dem and quite a fan of the nanny state, counter to the rest of the Country. This older generation is rapidly dying off and Republicans are SLOWLY catching up in registration. It was almost three to one D-R in the mid-80's, it will soon be less than 2-1 D-R. As a rule in WV, GOP candidates win when a county is only 2-1 Dem-GOP.

Despite being what can be considered the most socially conservative state this side of Utah, WV voters bought into new deal socialism more so than any rural region of the country.

This led to crap like:
First consumer sales tax in nation. Not to mention the first food stamps handed out in Country.

Nation's worst workers comp system (government run system - highest premiumns in US, over twice of what CA's were)

Nation's Number One Tort Hell since Haley Barbour passed reform in MS.

An open hostility to business - very pro union attitudes.
(We are changing this attitude slowly but surely)

WV Teacher's Retirement System, the most indebted public employee pension plan in US

10 billion dollars in Government Entitlement Debt in a state of only 1.8 million people.

A drop from 32nd in per capita income in 1930 to the 49th of 2000 and the sure fire 50th in 2010. (We are likely to end Mississippi's 80 year reign as the poorest state in US.)

The slowest growth in Gross State Product since 1978 of any state.

Robert Byrd and his welfare state agenda, Rockefeller and his socialized healthcare ambitions.

Vote buying on a scale that would make Kingfish or Dailey proud. More money was probably trucked into Logan by Joe Kennedy in the 1960 Dem Presidential Primary than was handed out on the streets of Chicago in the Nixon-Kennedy General.

AND NEGATIVE POPULATION GROWTH. (2.2 million in 1950, 1.8 million today. We have actually lost almost a million people, because there were 500,000 more births than deaths in WV over that period of time to go with the net change of 400,000. Some counties have lost well over 60 per cent of their population)

Now how does this tie into today?

The Republican Party had NO MEANINGFUL ACCOMPLISHMENTS from 1932 until 2002. Dems owned over 3-1 advantages in legislature for most of last 75 years. (We were narrowing the gap - right before Watergate) Democrats won 24 of 25 elections for Supreme Court and were 101-7 in elections for Statewide Executive Office.

Republican Governors Moore and Underwood won by securing backing of Democrats who were displeased with their party’s nominee. Moore actually won union endorsements. They did not help build the GOP during their tenure. When they ran, their staffers tried to convince county party chairmen not to recruit candidates with the hopes that the local Dems would stay neutral in the Governor's race. This did not work and let to countless disaster after disaster on Election Day. I have been in many an argument with GOP old timers who still buy into this crap of not fielding candidates to avoid angering the Dem bosses.

Republicans had stopped fielding legislative and countywide candidates in over half the state over the decades, leaving the Dems with control of the Capitol and Courthouse after the Primary Election.

George W. Bush won with Conservative Democrats, Gunowners, and Coal Miners who did not by the crap spoon-fed to them by Cecil Roberts, UMWA president, the man who handed Kerry the shotgun that he voted to ban on labor day. Bush's 2000 victory has actually sparked the belief that we can go GOP. Remember, we went Dukakis in 1988 and Dubya in 2000. How many states can make that claim?

Since then however, a fellow named Kris Warner became State Chairman and things have started to happen. He expanded the staff of GOP HQ from one part time employee to over ten today.

His team and party activists recruited a post depression record number of legislative candidates in 2002. We reached a post Watergate high water mark in the state house and senate and can actually stop the suspension of the rules in senate. For the first time since 1932, we actually blocked legislation and forced better bills though in 2003-4.

We knocked off the Dem Senate Finance and Judiciary Committee Chairmen in 2002.
We forced the Speaker to remove his Education Chairman in order to save his own hide a few weeks ago, and we are very confident the scandals over the Senate Majority Whip and House Majority Leader will bring them down. (Check back in November, this is not BS)

In 2004, we have recruited the first full legislative, state executive and judicial office slate by any WV political party in over a century. This state chairman has served us well, and we have a better than 50/50 shot to take over the state house of delegates this year and elect 2-3 state office holders, the most since 1928. (Including first two women in state history.)

Kris Warner on balance has been a great state chairman, perhaps the first one to make a difference in the past century, however on this elector business; he (and others) may have made a serious misjudgment in this matter. (I do not think this warrants removal of the Chairman)

We had either Cecil Underwood or Arch Moore as our Gubernatorial Nominee for every term since 1956 with the exception of 1992. (Moore and Underwood still have bad feelings for each other over 1968 primary, their factions fought each other more than the Dems for the better part of 1968-2001)

Our party had been controlled by one of these two factions over this period. Warner is the only man to get these two in the same room to help raise money and build party unity.

His brother, a recently retired Army Colonel won the primary for Governor with less than 30 per cent of the vote. He faced a field with many qualified or quasi-qualified opponents.

Dan Moore - Millionare Car Dealer and Banker

Doug McKinney - Head of WV Med Association, Dr's are very important here in influencing the oldest population in country. Doctors support will kick out the Dem incumbent in Supreme Court race this year.

Larry Faircloth - Longest serving Republican legislator who is from most Republican region of state.

Rob Capehart - Former tax and revenue commissioner who had best campaign staff and organization - mostly volunteers!

Richie Robb - Longest serving mayor in state. Vietnam war hero and football letterman at Marshall U back when they sucked. He is an oddball who has not been good for the party, but he has been an outstanding mayor. His city has a million dollar surplus with the best city services, while the rest of the Kanawha Valley cities are struggling to survive)

Robb ran against Kris as GOP Chairman in 2003 and garnered less than 10 votes on a committee of 120. Robb had opposed candidate recruitment, until it was successful. I know, I was cussing him in my mind when I read his quotes on the matter in the Charleston Pravda- err Gazette.

Having a state chairman and gubernatorial nominee being brothers created some tensions among the factions of the primary losers. Remember, 70 percent of Republicans voted for those losers. The state chairman decided to appoint the losers as electors to build unity and it seemed like a good idea at the time to most everyone. (As a person in a leadership position of the State Party, I could've sought the opportunity to be an elector before this proposal was made, but I went along with the chairman's recommended appointments as did the rest of the six hundred convention delegates did at the state convention in June - there was NO objection to these appointments by anyone.)

I do think it was a major mistake that no one screened these guys for blood oaths and loyalty pledges. I will make damn sure that is done before I ever support anyone for elector.

I wish I or someone else had brought this up, but no one did and I share the sense of embarrassment that the rest of us West Virginian Republicans feel. Kris Warner, and his brother Monty may have erred in this matter, but our state is struggling to survive and these guys are too important to remove from critical positions over what amounts to a mistake of youth.

I have checked the State Code. Electors can only be appointed by parties at State Conventions in the months of June, July, or August with 60 days notice of the event sent to the County Committees to nominate delegates. Since it is September, we could not legally hold a convention and rescind and renominate new electors if we tried. (Democrat State Supreme Court, Secretary of State, and Attorney General will not allow us to deviate from code, and they are VERY partisan)

The state party has no recourse once the elector nomination certified by state elections board. We are stuck with him. In fact, he can not remove himself, he can only refuse to show up to the capitol in December.

The only recourse is that if Robb does not show, the other electors can elect another elector by majority vote. Robb is kind of like John McCain, he is quite unpredictable. He may not show, or he may yet vote for Bush after sending out a press release expressing his grievances.

As for his political career, it is over. He has no idea how many people will want to see him gone from elected office and the state republican committee (elected in primary). He is functioning on the pre-2000 paradigm that Republicans do not matter in West Virginia, he will be disappointed.

We do not have recall in WV, but there can be an impeachment motion filed to remove him as mayor if he breaks the law, by voting against the people as an elector.

We Republicans have great potential in West Virginia, but we have only been a viable party here for two years, we have come farther than anyone knows. Five short years ago, no one would give a damn who our appointed electors were, because "we would only vote Republican in a Reagan-Mondale style landslide."

Thanks for the historical info-the Dumbocratic Party was a strangling influence on local politics for far too long. (now, if only something could be done about the Corridor D boondoggle...) I'd hate to think that WV could go to Lurch because of Bobb. Some people just live to be annoying.