XP SP2 glitches to trip up one in 10 upgrades - report

The Register (U.K.) ^ | September 2, 2004 | John Leyden

[Stoat]

One in 10 corporate PC users will encounter difficulties in upgrading to Windows XP Service Pack 2, according to AssetMetrix. Smaller firms will be hit hardest by compatibility problems between their applications and the much anticipated update of Microsoft's flagship operating system, the Canadian asset management firm says.

Microsoft has issued a list of applications that require modification in order to work properly with XP SP2. The list has been in a state of flux since XP SP2 was released. But based on the current list of approximately 60 applications with SP2 compatibility problems, AssetMetrix reckons that an average company using Windows XP will encounter problems with SP2 on 10.3 per cent of its Windows XP-based PCs.

Win XP SP2 made its debut as a beta in March. It bundles major security revisions and a new Windows update procedure, and additions include: Windows Security Centre; automatically turning on Windows Firewall; and browsing enhancements to Internet Explorer (providing far more control of ActiveX controls, for example).

Problem application require "unblocking" (or manual reconfiguration) because XP SP2 sets Windows Firewall on by default. Other applications suffer a loss of functionality after SP2 is installed. Both types of problems were considered in AssetMetrix's study.

The analysis reviewed the installation of specific software - identified by Microsoft as having various compatibility and functionality issues with SP2 - on more than 44,000 Windows XP-based PCs from over 340 companies. AssetMetrix study showed that companies with less than 100 XP installations had an average impact of around 12 per cent, while larger companies tended to have closer to six per cent of their Windows XP PCs affected.

[melkor]

The new citrix is awsome :) i use the client on my ipaq to get stuff done on the server without goin over there..

You can disable the new firewall via group policy so that everyone on the network leaves it off.

[Bush2000]

Obviously

And none of these PCs have USB ports? Where do you plug in the mouse and keyboard?

[Bush2000]

you talking about treating the symptoms, ive never needed the bogus hosts file, i make sure the systems dont get the parasites...

I'm not talking about a professional IT environment. The average FR home user doesn't have your resources. ;-p

and as far as norton being used, the stated os was 98 first edition, nav2k4 doesnt run correctly on first edition... thats a fact published by norton. go run kaspersky, choose the extended def files.. do a full scan, im sure it will find something. kaspersky has 10x the virus defs that norton does and kaspersky will run the newer versions on the older windows 98.

I've only found virus scanners to be of marginal value. Detecting intrustion AFTER infection is pretty bad timing. I just don't trust these tools to adequately restore a compromised system. They're primarily useful in letting you know when you're already screwed.

run studio on my system, i write small custom automation scripts and apps for administration.. works fine with sp2 the new WMI stuff is great. theres a workaround for the sql problem... check technet

The links in my post address these issues for non-IT folks.

and you dont have to shell out 100$, there are used copies of windows 2000 on ebay for 10$ at least 2k is still a supported os plus you get NT security, not 9x windows over a shell.

Sure, getting Win2K on eBay is a good route -- but I prefer XP SP2.

sorry, my soapbox got steped on on this one... i guess i should shut up.. fools keep our company in business. i should see sp2 as a bad thing since it cuts down on 90% of problems

No problem. You're obviously a professional and used to dealing with these sorts of issues. Everyone here can benefit from your experience.

[Hank Rearden]

So far the only glitch I found was, when Windows XP Professional starts the spash screen it doesn't show Professional anymore, it's simply Windows XP.

Anybody else notice this?

Yep, I noticed that too when I installed SP2 on XP Pro. They also removed the "Copyright 2001 Microsoft" and replaced it with simply "Copyright Microsoft". Guess they don't want it seeming too dated if the next one isn't due until 2006.

[melkor]

I'm not talking about a professional IT environment. The average FR home user doesn't have your resources. ;-p

---

http://v5.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/v5consumer/default.aspx?ln=en-us

now they have most of em :P

I was at a technet meeting a few months ago about sp2 and one of the slides they were showing was about "days between virus release and days between patch and days between containment" there are STILL folks out there infected with slammer who have NOT installed the patch released almost a YEAR ago.. most of the viruses are now reverse engineered out of the patches since most patches now come out BEFORE a virus... they take a look at the hole that gets fixed and exploit the hole targeting people who dont load their updates.

www.kaspersky.com free 30 day trial. i suggest everyone scan themselves with the extended database enabled and then uninstall the program (like i said.. it KILLLLLLLSSSS your performance)

but your right, these are home users that dont have time to keep current, microsoft knows that, thats why sp2 nags you to turn on auto updates so that you dont have to worry about it. (feature not in windows 98.......)

"I've only found virus scanners to be of marginal value. Detecting intrustion AFTER infection is pretty bad timing. I just don't trust these tools to adequately restore a compromised system. They're primarily useful in letting you know when you're already screwed."

try kaspersky or panda, even tho nav is the most popular, its the worst one right along side mcafee. Like i said before, nav lets you know when your infected.. just look and see when nav stops running :)

keep on rockin bush2000 maby one day the world will have a safer computing enviroment.

[melkor]

So far the only glitch I found was, when Windows XP Professional starts the spash screen it doesn't show Professional anymore, it's simply Windows XP.
Anybody else notice this?

Yep, I noticed that too when I installed SP2 on XP Pro. They also removed the "Copyright 2001 Microsoft" and replaced it with simply "Copyright Microsoft". Guess they don't want it seeming too dated if the next one isn't due until 2006

---

they did that with 2k sp3, they removed the "powered by nt technology" from the splash.

usualy they just update the copyright date

It has a technicial use, when a system wont boot you can hang it at the splash and tell what version you will need to run a recovery overlay install with the least amount of headache. i just wish they would stop being cryptic and say "now starting windows xp service pack 2" like nt4 did

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Just to put your mind at rest, I installed, updated and ran kaspersky A/V personal 5. It took about 1.5 hours to scan the entire system, but as expected, not a single infection.

It did however find the Eicar test strings I downloaded from eicar.org and showed them for what they are.

[PatrickHenry]

Here's my SP2 story. I downloaded it yesterday, then restarted the computer. Everything worked fine, except for one little detail. My DSL modem had stopped working. The computer no longer recognized it. It's an Alcatel.

After some time with the support guys at Bellsouth, I downloaded (by dial-up!) their latest driver. It was 4.3 mgb, and it took forever. I had forgotten the misery of downloads by dial-up. The driver installed just fine, but the computer still won't recognize the Alcatel. After another hour or so with the tech guys, and disconnecting, uninstalling, re-installing, re-connecting, restarting, etc. (you know how that is) I'm still out of luck. So they're sending me a newer DSL modem. Meanwhile, I'm working on a dial-up connection. Not much fun.

[Bush2000]

I had a similar issue with my Mom's computer. She also has an Alcatel DSL modem. For some reason, the USB drivers for the Alcatel were really flaky. I solved the issue by installing an inexpensive ($15) PCI Ethernet adapter and eliminating the USB connection between the PC and the Alcatel. The only problem with doing this is that the Alcatel doesn't play well with a typical network (IMHO, BellSouth is playing games to get people to pay for additional DSL modems rather than use NAT). You probably want to read this article if you contemplate going the route that I took: http://www.tech-company.com/lan/bsfa.html. I didn't trust the Alcatel firewall, so I put a LinkSys firewall/router between my Mom's PC and the Alcatel modem. This requires a little tweaking to get it right. Read the article. Cost me about $80 to get everything running properly. And Mom is now happy with the perf/security. Hope that helps.

[Bush2000]

I forgot to add: If you network your PC in the way that I did, it makes it really easy to connect more than one machine to the LinkSys (BellSouth won't support you -- but who cares). I believe that the Alcatel modem is designed to either use the USB port or the CAT5 port -- but not both. So don't leave the USB connector attached if you plan on connecting the LinkSys (or Netgear or whatever other router you use) because the CAT5 port will be disabled.

[PatrickHenry]

Thanks for the info. I don't have a local network for this machine, although I've been thinking about it. What I plan to do is wait for the new modem from Bellsouth to arrive. I guess that will be after Labor Day. They didn't charge me for it, but I had to agree to an additional year's hookup. If the new one doesn't work, I'll return it, dump Bellsouth and get another ISP. In the interim, I'm still using a dial-up connection.

Another alternative is un-installing SP2. Microsoft gives instructions for this. SP2 can be removed, just like any other program. But I consider that a big risk. It's true that during the installation of SP2, the wizzard provided for this when it backed up my earlier Windows files, but who knows how good that backup was, or how good the restoration will be when SP2 is removed? Rather than possibly botch up the whole operating system, it's easier to swap modems, or if necessary, ISPs.

Also, I've learned from painful experience that if you roll back to an earlier Windows configuration, some programs won't work because the upgrade also changed some drivers that somehow stay in the system, notwithstanding the rollback. I guess they just overwrote the earlier versions, which are now lost. As a result, there's always a driver or two that isn't restored. Instead, you're left with the new drivers, and -- being designed to work with the latest version of Windows -- they won't work with programs that used older drivers for your prior version of Windows. I don't know if I explained that, but anyway -- I don't want to uninstall SP2. You can't easily turn back the clock.

[Bush2000]

I think you're pursuing the right course. See whether the new modem takes care of the problem (could be a simple hardware problem -- my guess is no). If you get another ISP, the new ISP may give you an Ethernet card (mine did). Ask (it can't hurt). And if you do decide to go the network route, you can always get a wireless firewall/router. That way, if you have other computers in the house (I have a ton), getting them networked won't require drilling holes and pulling cable. Cheers!

[PatrickHenry]

Since my last post I've endured ten more days of dial-up, and finally -- this afternoon -- I'm back to using a DSL connection. It's probably silly now, but I thought I should update the thread.

The promised new modem arrived, a Westell 6100, but it didn't solve the problem. I still couldn't establish a DSL connection (although, maddeningly, that telephone line was working fine, and I was using it for dial-up surfing).

After some more service calling, Bellsouth said that due to the hurricanes, their DSL service was down, so I'd have to wait until the 14th, when it should be restored. I waited. No progress on the 14th. On the 15th it still wasn't restored.

Back on the phone with the tech guys. To make a long story shorter, they sent out someone to check my line. It's okay, but -- this sounds crazy -- a wire in my phone jack had come lose and it was just whacked enough to kill the DSL connection, but voice was okay. As soon as the guy adjusted it the problem was solved.

So my problem didn't have anything to do with Service Pack 2. Nor was it related to my old Alcatel modem (although my new Westell seems to be somewhat faster, so I'm glad I upgraded). The only sensible thing I did in this whole mess was decide NOT to un-install SP2. That would have solved nothing. And Bellsouth is okay. It just took a long time to get to the root of the problem.

End of report.

[Bush2000]

Good news. Welcome back.

[jdm]

After installing SP2, my computer booted up, but only to the point where I could see the wallpaper. No desktop icons, no taskbar, etc. I had to run Windows in "safe mode" and delete SP2. At least now I'm back to where I started. Frustrating.

[Stoat]

Thanks very much for your report, and I'm very sorry to hear of your troubles. I haven't installed SP2 yet because two of my favorite programs are on Microsoft's list of applications that are incompatible with SP2 in one way or another, and so I'm waiting for the developers of those products to upgrade their applications. As a result, I regret to say that I'm not in a position to be of much help.

One thing you may wish to consider is to look over the responses from other Freepers in this thread as well as other related threads that you can find by searching with a keyword such as 'sp2'. Someone else may have had a similar problem and may be able to discuss the fix for it, either in a FR thread or via Freepmail. I've found that there's a wealth of talent and expertise here on FR and you may be able to find someone here who can help you with your problem. Good luck :-)

[Mr. Rips]

System Restore is your friend when it comes to installs. And watch out for GPO's, for some reason a few, not all, of our PC's got as far as loading the user profile, once it tried to map out to the users network drive, BAM, auto reboot, no warning, no messages.

[Starwind]

A question for you both if you would please?

So, it's been a few additional months and I'm wondering was there ever a genuine problem with XP SP2, and if so (or not), is it now ready for prime time?

I have a remote friend (computer illiterate) who had problems upgrading from XP to XP SP2 - her MSN.com ISP support stopped working altogether. The MSN tech supp folks told her to back off SP2, she did, everything worked as before. She was told by MSN tech supp:

After 'repeatedly' calling MSN I found someone who suggested removing SP2. He told me he had countless calls with similar problems that began after they installed SP2. Off the record, he said he didn't download SP2 onto his personal computer. He did say Microsoft was addressing it's compatibility with other anti-viruses - Norton, etc. and was waiting until it was more perfected

She previously ran Adaware & SpyBot S&D and Norton ant-virus but switched to McAfee as she was told it was more 'MSN compatible'.

She is now wondering if she should re-attempt the SP2 upgrade.

Have there been any patches to XP SP2 that ostensibly fix upgrade problems, or has it remained static since this thread was last posted, back in Oct 2004?

FWIW, I run W2K Pro SP4 with ZoneAlarm Pro & AVG, Opera, and Eudora. So most of the easy virus and Spybot holes are plugged for me. I've only had 1 virus (trapped) and 1 BSOD in 4 years. So, I'm somewhat sympathetic to the argument that there was nothing wrong with XP SP2 if one keeps their system clean and maintained, but OTOH, I don't have XP and have heard a number of problems with it (similar to the early days of W2K - when I still ran NT - I stay back of the 'bleeding edge').

Thanks for any updated advice/help.

[Poser]

Fifty-seven upgrades. No problems yet.

Here's what I do.

1. Run Adaware SE
2. Run virus checker
3. Reboot and log on as administrator
4. Turn off everything in the system tray that will turn off
5. Run the upgrade from a CD
6. Reboot

I'm convinced that some of the stuff running in the background creates problems.

[Stoat]

Agreed - From Win 3.1 and Win 95 on up to my current WinXP Pro I have never had the slightest problem, or even the most minor hiccup with any Microsoft patch or upgrade, and I make sure to keep my system up to date.

Another thing that a person can do is to do a 'clean boot' on your machine

Google Search clean boot sitemicrosoft.com

which should eliminate any conflict issues with background processes.

A lot of people are also simply not aware how easy it is to manage your startup profile to eliminate RAM-eating unnecessary startup processes.  They will have all sorts of garbage running in the background that isn't shown in the taskbar and they wonder why they have problems.