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To: Ol' Dan Tucker

I agree with your take on this article. There is only one correction and I almost hate to tell you. The 6 quarters is 18 months or 1 and 1/2 years not 3 years.

One of the main problems with this agreement with Mexico is that our government is only estimating 47000 Mexican workers. The government doesn't seem to have a clue of the cost of such a program.

This looks like a problem of outsourcing. The company that hires Americans to work in foreign lands should foot the bill for the charge of ss to that country. It should not be the American taxpayer who foots the bill for large corporations. The only other way that I can imagine 3000 US workers in Mexico is American college professors in Mexico. Otherwise, I can't even begin to think of jobs in Mexico for Americans.


126 posted on 09/01/2004 11:06:28 PM PDT by texastoo (a "has-been" Republican)
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To: texastoo
"I can't even begin to think of jobs in Mexico for Americans."

Oil exploration and avocado farm corps. Retirement communities (i.e. selling real estate) for expats. Tourism. Cement. Cars. IT.

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

127 posted on 09/01/2004 11:10:08 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: texastoo; Southack
There is only one correction and I almost hate to tell you. The 6 quarters is 18 months or 1 and 1/2 years not 3 years.

Thanks. Much worse, but thanks.

One of the main problems with this agreement with Mexico is that our government is only estimating 47000 Mexican workers. The government doesn't seem to have a clue of the cost of such a program.

Reading the GAO document itself, reveals the following estimation about the potential costs:

SOCIAL SECURITY: Proposed Totalization Agreement with Mexico Presents Unique Challenges (That's an understatement)

Finally, the cost of a totalization agreement with Mexico is highly uncertain. SSA’s actuarial estimate states that the cost of a Mexican agreement would be $78 million in the first year and would grow to $650 million by 2050. The estimate assumes the initial number of newly eligible Mexican beneficiaries is equivalent to the 50,000 beneficiaries living in Mexico today and would grow sixfold over time. However, this proxy figure does not directly consider the estimated millions of current and former unauthorized workers and family members from Mexico and appears small in comparison with those estimates. Although the actuarial estimate indicates that the agreement would not generate a measurable impact on the trust funds, an increase of more than 25 percent in the estimate of initial, new beneficiaries would generate a measurable impact. For prior agreements, error rates associated with estimating the expected number of new beneficiaries have frequently exceeded 25 percent. Because of the significant number of unauthorized Mexican workers in the United States, the estimated cost of the proposed totalization agreement is even more uncertain than for the prior agreements.
...
To qualify for totalized U.S. social security benefits, a worker must have at least 6 but no more than 39 U.S. coverage credits. Benefit amounts are based on the portion of time a foreign citizen worked in the United States and, thus, are almost always lower than full social security benefits. The average monthly, totalized social security benefit at the end of 2001 was $162, compared with the average nontotalized monthly social security benefit of $825. In 2001, SSA paid about $173 million under totalization agreements to about 89,000 persons, including their dependents.

So, in reality SSA does not currently pay 50,000 non-citizens. It pays 89,000.

And, contrary to what Southack assserts, Social Security benefits are paid to illegal aliens for work performed in the US when unauthorized. Or, to be more precise, while an illegal alien.

Under U.S. law, immigrants may not work in the United States unless specifically authorized. Nevertheless, immigrants often do work without authorization and pay social security taxes. Under the Social Security Act, all earnings from covered employment in the United States count towards earning social security benefits, regardless of the lawful presence of the worker, his or her citizenship status, or country of residence. Immigrants become entitled to benefits from unauthorized work if they can prove that the earnings and related contributions belong to them. However, they cannot collect such benefits unless they are either legally present in the United States or living in a country where SSA is authorized to pay them their benefits. Mexico is such a country.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

The term, "unauthorized worker" is the same as illegal alien and US taxpayer dollars will be paid to literally millions of newly eligible Mexican illegal aliens under this Totalization Agreement with Mexico..

Cortesía de la Administración de Jorge Arbusto.

131 posted on 09/02/2004 2:30:51 AM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker
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