Posted on 08/26/2004 4:36:06 PM PDT by Shermy
PORTLAND, Ore. - A swiftboat crewman decorated in the 1969 Vietnam incident where John Kerry (news - web sites) won a Bronze Star says not only did they come under enemy fire but also that his own boat commander, who has challenged the official account, was too distracted to notice the gunfire.
Retired Chief Petty Officer Robert E. Lambert, of Central Point, Ore., got a Bronze Star for pulling his boat commander — Lt. Larry Thurlow — out of the Bay Hap River on March 13, 1969. Thurlow had jumped onto another swiftboat to aid sailors wounded by a mine explosion but fell off when the out-of-control boat ran aground.
Thurlow, who has been prominent among a group of veterans challenging the Democratic presidential candidate's record, has said there was no enemy fire during the incident. Lambert, however, supports the Navy account that says all five swiftboats in the task force "came under small arms and automatic weapon fire from the river banks" when the mine detonated.
"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.
"Thurlow was far too distracted with rescue efforts to even realize he was under fire. He was concentrating on trying to save lives."
The anti-Kerry group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, has been running television ads challenging the Navy account of the boats being under fire. Kerry has condemned the ads as a Republican smear campaign.
A career military man, Lambert is no fan of Kerry's either. He doesn't like Kerry's post-Vietnam anti-war activity and doesn't plan to vote for him.
"I don't like the man himself," Lambert said, "but I think what happened happened, and he was there."
A March 1969 Navy report located by The Associated Press this week supports Lambert's version. The report twice mentions the incident and both times calls it "an enemy initiated firefight" that included automatic weapons fire and underwater mines used against a group of five boats that included Kerry's.
Kerry's Bronze Star was awarded for his pulling Special Forces Lt. Jim Rassmann, who had been blown off the boat, out of the river. Rassmann, who is retired and lives in Florence, Ore., has said repeatedly that the boats were under fire, as have other witnesses. Lambert didn't see that rescue because Kerry was farther down the river and "I was busy pulling my own boat officer (Thurlow) out of the water."
Thurlow could not be reached for comment about Lambert's recollections.
But speaking for the Swift Boat Veterans group, Van Odell, who was in the task force that day, remembers it differently from Lambert.
"When they're firing, you can hear the rounds hit the boat or buzz by your head. There was none of that," he said in a telephone interview from Katy, Texas, where he lives.
Lambert said the swiftboats were on their way out of the river when a mine exploded under one, PCF-3.
"When they blew the 3-boat, everyone opened up on the banks with everything they had," he said. "That was the normal procedure. When they came after you, they came after you. Somebody on shore blew that mine."
"There was always a firefight" after a mine detonation, he said.
"Kerry was out in front of us, on down the river. He had to come back up the river to get to us."
Lambert retired in 1978 as a chief petty officer with 22 years of service and three tours in Vietnam. He does not remember ever meeting Kerry.
Ping.
For sure no one else saw a flying dog...
The libs are boiling it all down to this one point. They think they won! Now's the time for Bush to roll out the next ball for Kerry and his dogs to chase.
That should be easy to refute or confirm -- assuming of course that the part outside of the quotes is what this gentleman actually told the Kerry media outlet employee.
In his after action report, Kerry feared the consequences should he say he struck the fishing weir with his boat so he blamed the damage to his boat as being from a near miss from a mine.
This guy won a bronze star based on there being enemy fire, based on the action report Kerry wrote.
I doubt he wants to give it back, based on there not being enemy fire.
People are shooting at them and the skipper doesn't notice it..on a river that was only 75 yards wide.....sure.
Why wouldn't he just say: "We were under fire."? Why would he use those weasel words?
I don't think he's quite as certain of his statements as is being implied.
Also, Thurlow is too distracted to notice the enemy fire, but this guy, allegedly under enemy fire, is not too distracted to notice that Thurlow is distracted.
There was no damage to any of the boats allegedly under enemy fire.
Because his bronze star is predicated on there being enemy fire.
He's had it for 35 years.
Who can blame him for believing now that there was enemy fire?
Obviously, he doesn't recall it specifically, if you read his statements.
Clintonian parsing of his statments. He's lying and afraid he'll lose his medal because the truth is coming out.
Kerry folk have selected the Bronze and Silver Star stories as the weak links. Yeah, Kerry exaggerated, but something happened. Anyway, no "enemy fire" caused Kerry's rump wound.
Look at what Kerry folk aren't targeting. The Purple Hearts, including the one from this "engagement", but the wound was received earlier, self-inflicted. And the "mine" damage was fictional - but asserted to butress his PH claim to bug out.
Which many did, but they're not running for president on their honor and obligation to duty.
"I thought we were under fire, I believed we were under fire," Lambert said
"thought" and "believed" does not mean you were
Is this a correct statement? I don't know much about mines, but I had the impression that they didn't need to be 'blown' by someone on shore because they detonated upon contact with a ship's hull. I'd appreciate input on this topic from a knowledgeable person.
I hadn't thought about the weir. You're right, that's a good possibility.
I don't think weir throw shrapnel though...
AP calls the guy and says, "You know that Bronze Star you got for being under enemy fire?" "Well, some of your fellow SwiftVets don't think there was"? "So, what do you recall about it?"
"I thought we were under fire".
And then the libs trumpet this guy as backing Kerry's false report.
Mr. Lambert is very uncertain of what happened. He needs to spend some time facing O'Neill or Thurlow with all parties given time to present their POV and ask questions. No Chrissy allowed.
Can't be a weir or a near miss of a mine because he claimed he got 'shrapnel' (also known as rice) in his 'leg' (also known as butt.)
Lambert and Kerry weren't the only ones there.
Rasmann was under the water, so he doesn't know.
How many SwiftVets who were there say there was no enemy fire?
Lambert knows he got a bronze star based on there allegedly being enemy fire.
BULLS*** If there was 5000 meters of fire even 500 meters of fire from both banks! He wouldnt be saying " I thought, I believed" LOL what a crock!
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