527's Forever

Investor's Business Daily ^ | 8/26/04 | Issues & Insights (staff)

[mondoman]

There is an excellent side-bar table listing the Largest 10x 527's, only ONE is a conservative PAC. Perhaps someone smarter than I can post the link.

[Protagoras]

It looks like Bush and Kerry agree that free speech should be curtailed.

[Smogger]

[misterrob]

I don't believe that Bush wants to curtail free speech. if he did then we would have heard from him on this a long time ago when he was being smeared.

This is politics, IMO and nothing more. If he stands up there and distances himself from the SBV then he removes something that the democrats can cry about and it leaves Kerry forced to continue to fight their charges. Yes, they will still cry about how mean the republicans are but Bush just needs to keep saying the ads should go away. Notice how the democrats aren't calling for a ban on all 527s?

Good move Mr. Rove.

[mondoman]

In 1919, Justice Holmes filed a dissent in Abrams v. United States in which he created the powerful and enduring "marketplace of ideas" metaphor to encapsulate the concept of freedom of speech. In the marketplace metaphor, ideas compete against one another for acceptance -- with the underlying faith that truth will prevail in such an open encounter.

Borrowing from John Milton's "Areopagitica" (1644) and John Stuart Mill's "On Liberty" (1859), Holmes wrote in his Abrams dissent: "But when men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe even more than they believe the very foundations of their own conduct that the ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas -- that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market ... . That at any rate is the theory of our Constitution. It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment."

By CHARLES LEVENDOSKY Casper Star-Tribune July 17, 1997

What we see happening today with the traction of the SwiftBoat Vets for Truth message v. the opposing 527's is demonstration of the Truth competing in the Marketplace of Ideas.

[mondoman]

thank you, my browser does not ID the source for graphics.

[Ichneumon]

[Protagoras]

I don't believe that Bush wants to curtail free speech.

He signed the repeal of the first amendment, and now is calling for silence from so called 527s. Fox news just reported that he will embrace some form of regulation "reform" to close the "loopholes" on 527s. It remains to be seen if Fox is correct.

[mondoman]

Please note:

JFK has attempted legal threats to silence the SBV.
JFK has asked the FEC to silence and fine SBV.
JFK has attempted to link Bush and GOP to SBV.

JFK has NOT repudiated the facts presented by SBV, only modified two of his claims.

[Huck]

But a loophole in a misguided law isn't always a bad thing.

Which is why I disagree with GWB's stance on 527s. But then, it'd be pretty idiotic of the president to SIGN CFR and then SUPPORT 527s. If you are going to muzzle free speech, might as well go all the way.

[mondoman]

The Supreme Court could have overturned M-F. The SC shirked their responsibility just as did the President.

Chickens coming home to roost.

[Protagoras]

FROM ANOTHER THREAD

Posted on 08/26/2004 10:20:00 AM CDT by gopwinsin04

Scott McClellan tells the press pool that the President this morning called Senator John McCain to ask for his help in pursung court action to shut down activities of the 527 groups.

Bush went on to say that if McCain that if court action does not work, he would look forward to working on legislation on the issue.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...

[mondoman]

The move will have to be made by both Russ Feingold and John McCain. Probably too late to make a change for this campaign.

Let's keep up the free speech! I have faith in the Marketplace of Ideas.

[misterrob]

A repeal of the first amendment? Not so sure about that.

Campaign finance reform was an idea that had some merit but ultimately failed. Trying to clean up the cesspool of politics is a fool's errand.

[Protagoras]

A repeal of the first amendment? Not so sure about that.

It restricts freedom of speech. Read the first amendment.

Campaign finance reform was an idea that had some merit but ultimately failed.

What was the merit?

[Protagoras]

Let's keep up the free speech! I have faith in the Marketplace of Ideas.

Too bad Bush and Kerry do not.

[mondoman]

Oui! D'accord!

I truly believe we have seen the seeds of the destruction of our Republic. I worry less about this current crop of candidates, than the ruthless Jr. Senator from NY, plotting in the wings. Think of how she will use the Patriot Act and McCain-Feingold?

[savedbygrace]

The problem with private financing of political campaigns is not the ads that are produced, but rather the influence that those private individuals and companies subsequently have over the politicians they give money to.

Until the media (perhaps with help from Kerry-Edwards) told us all who the largest single contributor to SBVT was, Bush-Cheney would've had no way to know who is was. Thus Mr. Perry wouldn't have gained any influence for his contribution.

It's the influence peddling, not the ads, that's the issue.

But this point is getting lost on EVERYBODY.

[Protagoras]

The frog is cooked.

[mondoman]

I have the distinct impression the SBVT has a rather low $/donor average. Too bad they don't list their donation statistics on their web site.

# of donors
Total dollar's raised.
Average $ raised per donor.

I think the facts would show that SBVT is more of a grassroots phenomenon than MoveOn and the rest.