Science seen as slipping in U.S.

Houston Chronicle ^ | August 22, 2004 | ERIC BERGER

[Porterville]

Aren't they all US citizens?

[Cincinatus' Wife]

I've seen open hostility from teachers--all divorced--during school hours regarding kids with mild autism/Asperger'

I've heard of this too. Part of the problem is taking in all special needs students to swell their $$$ take. Then there a practically zero people who know how to work in a special needs environment. Some of these kids need to be in regular classes and some shouldn't be there at all. But too often they're thrown in together and the teachers and their many untrained "helpers" are overwhelmed. Many of them have no business in teaching.

The educational system is broken. They've experimented and their meddling is destroying an educated electorate.

Public schools are little more that DNC factories - hire union members, indoctrinate students and support Democratic Party candidates.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

We used words foreign to them ---"vouchers," "republic," "freedom," "liberty," & "Republicans"

...excellence, accountability, discipline, family.....

Bump!

[The Raven]

>>Aren't they all US citizens?

Two of three are Nobel Economists. I think Hayak was British. Click on my screenname for some reading.

[aruanan]

1. U.S. science may be in decline.

2. After 50 years of supremacy, both scientifically and economically, America now faces formidable challenges from foreign governments that have recognized scientific research and new technology as the fuels of a powerful economy.

It's funny, in a tragic sort of way (understandable considering what Richard Mitchell said in The Graves of Academe), that the writer of the article posted above could make the two statements and believe they are equivalent. That more emphasis is being placed on science in other places does not mean that the quality of science in the United States is declining. Of course, if fewer highly qualified students come to the U.S. for education and training in the sciences and that is not made up for by equally qualified American students, then that institution known as "U.S. science" could be said to be endangered. However, I don't think that many of these other nations have the resources to match our research institutions. For instance, not too long ago the Times of London rated the top five educational institutions in the world as Harvard, Yale, The University of Chicago, Oxford, and Cambridge. They put the American schools ahead because these schools (all three private schools) have endowments that dwarf those of the UK schools.

That said, we should realize, given what Richard Mitchell said in the above-mentioned book, freely available at www.sourcetext.com, that the future of U.S. education is in peril. Even private schools won't help as long as the teachers in those schools have been "trained" by the educational bureaucracy. But even teachers who have graduated from private colleges with schools of teacher education do not escape damage since these schools' accreditation as institutes of teacher training depends on meeting the requirements of the educational bureaucracy.

[cherry]

don't disparage the hard work of young women in academics....

I guess I should file a lawsuit against society and the masculinity driven educational system, because back in my day it was nursing school if you wanted to work in the medical field...

those days when girls were routinely pointed in the direction of nursing school or teachers college are not that long ago..

I think our society has benefitted greatly by women entering medicine in great numbers now, as well as other professions, even as we have a nursing shortage....

If you cite these stats about boys/men in college, or stats on how American boys/men are not going into engineering school etc, I guess I believe you, because I don't care to go look up those stats....

but immigrant and 2nd generation male children are doing quite nicely academically....

could it be that it is actually the way we raise boys in this society?

could it be that American boys are being raised soft, non-intellectual?....Are they spending too much time playing violent computer games and watching the Playboy channel, instead of studying, all at mommy and daddy's okay?

are we teaching them that self-indulgence is their right?

are we teaching them that they can participate in any number of "boys will be boys" escapades and still find excuses for them?....

this egotistical upbringing goes for both boys and girls, it just seems that boys do not grow out of it soon enough...

the crux of the problem is this:....our boys are not being "feminized".....

I think our boys are actually becoming just the opposite...

they are becoming almost too testosterone driven....way too violent and way too sexual at earlier and earlier ages....

its frigthning .....

[Porterville]

He was Austrian born and died British

but

"Hayek moved to the United States in 1950 and became a professor of social and moral science with the University of Chicago's Committee on Social Thought. He held that position until 1962, when he accepted a chair at the University of Freiburg. He retired in 1968."- Britanica

[Cincinatus' Wife]

No doubt many good students have made it into good schools. But how many students, who could have excelled, have been missed?

[Avenger]

Stop complaining and start encouraging your children to learn. The best way to do this is to set an example. Turn off the TV and read a book on physics or learn to program or solve some mathematical puzzles - whatever. Get your children involved in real learning - that sort of discovery almost never happens in the classroom. Learn about and talk to your children about the great men and women of science. Don't blame the U.S. educational system. Your child can learn with or without that. It is up to YOU to encourage your child and get the fire started. Don't expect the goverment to do it for you.

[Clemenza]

Ping!

[Malesherbes]

Yes, but we remain far ahead in break dancing, and besides, Chinese can't jump.

[grapegush]

don't disparage the hard work of young women in academics....

Why shouldn't he? You're disparaging the hard work of boys in school.

I guess I should file a lawsuit against society and the masculinity driven educational system, because back in my day it was nursing school if you wanted to work in the medical field...

Maybe you should file a lawsuit against the female part of society and the feminine driven educational system (most teachers were women), because back in your day, women preferred to waste time by screaming for men to provide them with educational opportunities, rather than simply create them by themselves, for themselves, much like men did :)

I think our society has benefitted greatly by women entering medicine in great numbers now, as well as other professions, even as we have a nursing shortage....

Perhaps, but this hasn't shown up in the Nobel Prize winners' male/female ratio ;)

could it be that it is actually the way we raise boys in this society?

"We"? I thought it was women who do most child care, as feminists constantly say.

could it be that American boys are being raised soft, non-intellectual?....Are they spending too much time playing violent computer games and watching the Playboy channel, instead of studying, all at mommy and daddy's okay?

No more than they did in the past.

are we teaching them that self-indulgence is their right?

I think you've got your genders reversed.

are we teaching them that they can participate in any number of "boys will be boys" escapades and still find excuses for them?....

As opposed to the "patriarchal" past, when boys were taught to behave like girls?

this egotistical upbringing goes for both boys and girls, it just seems that boys do not grow out of it soon enough...

At least they grow out of it.

the crux of the problem is this:....our boys are not being "feminized".....

True. They're being discriminated against.

I think our boys are actually becoming just the opposite...they are becoming almost too testosterone driven....

Is there extra testosterone in the water nowadays?

way too violent and way too sexual at earlier and earlier ages....

Actually, girls now make up about 25% of youth arrested for aggravated assault, and about 30% of other assaults, as opposed to about 5-15% in the past.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

. Your child can learn with or without that. It is up to YOU to encourage your child and get the fire started. Don't expect the goverment to do it for you.

Most definitely! But OUR MONEY ($600 Billion a year) is propping up this DNC swamp called public education.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

And parents ignorantly (but proudly) sport "my child" bumper stickers on their cars.

Grades do not reflect knowledge learned!

[snopercod]

not much manufacturing in the USA

Bingo. During the last two centuries, American scientists discovered great things for one primary reason: To make money.

These days, there is no money to be had. If you invent something great, something that will change the world like...say...the transistor radio, within two years some foreign country will steal your idea and your technology and put you out of business. And our government does nothing about it.

My neighbor works for Cooper Tools. Someone there invented a new kind of current-limiting fuse for electrical applications. The fools set up a plant in China to build the new fuses, and before the first batch came off the line, the Chinese had set up their own plant with the stolen technology and were selling the fuses here in America for a fraction of the price.

Our government does absolutely nothing to protect intellectual property of scientists from foreign pirates.

[joesnuffy]

American public schools have been dumbed down that the best students are equal to the 'weakest links' ......

Once upon a time American public schools cranked out science students that could out-compete any other kids in the world...

Analyze what happened and change it....oops cant...the solution wont be PC

President Bush's short term solution is to begin certifying students...we should also certify teachers

If we can figure out how to establish an incorruptible certification program...that is

[searchandrecovery]

Don't expect the goverment to do it for you.

Yea, what you said. Lots of things parents can do to get kids interested in cool stuff.

[The Toad]

Isn't it a shame that successful science doesn't work on the same principle that is currently taught in many schools....that is to say, the results don't matter, only the effort?

My daughter is starting kindergarten this week and already I've seen how disorganized the public school system is. If any of the people who run her school worked in a business environment they wouldn't have jobs very long--already, I have been shocked by the way some things have been handled.

Anyway, we need to turn the public schools around (good luck) get them back on track.

[searchandrecovery]

Well, since no one's around. How to get kids interested in da cool stuff? Glad you asked.

There are a lot of things we just take for granted - electricity, water, food, phones, computers, etc. Where do these things come from? Who invented them and when? There's tons of great stuff we take for granted every day that could be used to intro kids to science and engineering. A house is a great museum/lab. Get them involved with problem solving, mystery solving, a little research. How does that work? Could you make one of those?

We live in an age with unprecedented access to information. Unglue their little hands from the nintendo and the remote. If U.S. kids don't take advantage of the opportunities, some other kids will. (oh, yea, obligatory - f the nea).

[searchandrecovery]

Two words - Road Trip!