Posted on 08/21/2004 10:36:08 AM PDT by Mulder
This was posted over on thehighroad.org. Also, Phil VanCleave, head of VCDL, has a thread posted over on packing.org.
There is currently a country wide campaign started this week to get the secretary of the Interior, (who packs herself) to change the policy and let CCW holders in U.S. Parks. Perhaps some of you have read this at Packing.org already. We should continue to contact the Secretary of the Interior, who could make the change without Congress' approval:
Ms. Gale Norton Secretary of the Interior U.S. Department of the Interior Dept. HG, 1849 C Street, NW Washington, DC 20240 Phone: (202) 208-7351 gale_norton@ios.doi.gov
How much do you want to bet that 3,100 emails and phone calls will get her attention?
Suggested email:
Dear Secretary Norton,
The regulations for federal parks need to be revised. Any citizen who is trusted by a state to carry a handgun for self-defense needs to be allowed to carry that handgun in federal parks. This can be accomplished easily using the same mechanism that is used in federal forests: have the park regulations assimilate the host state's firearms laws.
Criminals know no boundaries. Parks, often with remote areas, are not immune from violent crime. My right to defend my life and the lives of my family should not end at an artificial boundary that violent criminals will never respect.
Please let me know what you are going to do to protect my right to self-defense.
Sincerely, [name and address]
"I'm a permit holder and I always take my gun when I go to a National Park, sign or no sign.
One time my husband and I took our horses to the Cherokee National Forest to ride with friends."
My understanding is that it is legal to CCW in a National Forest, but not a National Park.
You should read the book "Alice in Wonderland." It costs a fortune to buy land, provide burms, OSHA, local approval discerning noise, set up bench rests, provide sanitary facilities, issues with Pb disposal, water drainage into drinking aquifers, liability insurance...
Listen pal, I'm retired and want to run an NRA Approved Range. You don't get the picture. Do your fleepin homework before you start mouthing off on how "you" should do such-in-such. I looked into this consept of a private enterprise 20 years ago.
BTW, have you ever shot a weapon?
Go to NRA.ORG and ASK the friggin questions on how to set up a range.
I used to go hiking in Cherokee by myself. I always carried a pistol with me. I've run into some pretty strange people up there and the place is filled up with dope growers.
No, you can still open carry here. I've never seen anyone doing it though.
This is a very hard nut to crack. Last weekend we visited to the Civil War battlefield at Shiloh, TN. I did not carry on my person there, but I sure didn't check it at the gate either. TN and KY have reciprocity with regards to carrying concealed, but then visiting a Federal Park is another story.
Not really, my state (GA) is a "Shall Issue" state, all we need is to be fingerprinted and under-go a GBI background check. Absolutly no training is required. Of course, many of us may have put in more range time than the local LE community per year.
TN does require a permit for open carry. We don't have to conceal if we don't want to. We have a lot of reciprocal states though so you might be one. TN and most of the law enforcement officers are very cool with permit carrying people.
It can be very dangerous if you're alone. My problem was mostly with drunks since we always rode on weekends. We still have moonshiners too. They aren't that bad if "you're from here" but they still get jumpy about people walking through the setup. The mountain people up there are very nice but reclusive and don't care for outsiders. There are still people that live on the fringe of the National Forest in very remote places but you don't see them unless you go into parts that most tourists would never consider visiting.
Most of us who CC or open carry in our vehicles, spend countless hours at our ranges because we also enjoy target practice and like to "stay sharp". With CC comes a sense of responsiblity and a psychology of "avoidence". We understand the potential of our ballistics; we are not emboldened to go places or behave in ways that would invite a confrontation. We are more likely to avoid dangerous situations and getting in someones face over a petty grievance.
Most of us understand that the first law of self defense is to AVOID confrontation or situations where becoming a victim is greater than normal.
"Twitchy on the trigger" is not a quality you will find in most persons who respect firearms and personal safety enough to undergo the process of CC permitting and the many hours they spend at the range. We're also not going to fire at someone walking along a trail in a park because "we feel our life is threatened". The very nature of carrying a weapon gives normal, law abiding people, a sense of responsibility and descretion, and for those who do not aquire those qualities: don't worry, they are more likely to end up trying to clean a firearm with a chambered round, than to get "twitchy" on you.
I looked up Tennessee's firearm policy and you should be able to find out here. Tennessee Firearms
That sounds like a good idea at first glance.
We spend tax money on a lot less worthwhile causes.
The problem is that with tax money comes control over that money.
We gun nuts are a bunch of independent cusses. We don't like people telling us how, when and where we can shoot.
Range fees aren't a big deal. If a person can spend several hundred dollars on his or her weapon and ammo, they can spend ten or twenty bucks for range fees.
What must happen to get more people to the ranges is for the range personnel to take an interest in the shooting pleasure of their clients without making them feel like they're in boot camp.
I know it's a fine line between the liability for the shooter's safety and the promotion of the shooter's enjoyment, but no shooter is going to want to go back to a range where he got his ass chewed because he was standing six inches in front of the white line.
Too many ranges convey the attitude that they're doing you a favor by allowing you to shoot at all.
You are right about the amount of money required to belong to a range. The pistol range where I work is less than $150.00 for a years membership, which provide unlimited range access. There is a local outdoor range in the area, very nice, and membership dues are only $100.00 per year.
I do think that government should be in the business of promoting marksmanship, as it is a guarantor against tyranny. The DCM/CMP is the only government agency I can think of whose size and budget I would like to see increase, other than the military, of course. As Jeff Cooper noted, "A citizenry armed with rifles cannot be tyrannized."
Cowboy, I don't mind little lines and such, but people waving around loaded firearms with thier finger on the trigger, because they cannot be bothered to think about what they are doing is a different story. I get "swept" with a loaded handgun with someones finger on the trigger at least once a week.
It is pretty rare that we ever boot anyone, but it does happen. Most folks are willing try to change when you point out to them just how dangerously they are behaving.
I am not so much a stickler for range rules, but I do insist that the Four Rules of Safe Gun Handling be adhered to. I don't need any extra orifices.
Stay Safe
Most likely, it won't because to make those areas less dangerous, we need more gun control...< /sarcasm>
Most likely, it won't because to make those areas less dangerous, we need more gun control...< /sarcasm>
Ah, the dangers in making assumptions. Here in Texas classroom time and range time is required although it can be squeezed into a day.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/chlsindex.htm
You got that right, pard!
I like it ~ Bump!
I've read enough of your posts, LS, to know you're not guilty of being one of those ranger officers who thinks they're a god dispensing justice on the firing line.
Let me give you an example:
A couple decides to spend Sunday afternoon at the firing range because a friend told them it was fun.
She takes the .38 snubnose she bought for home protection which she's never fired, and he takes that 30.06 his uncle gave him twenty years ago.
Now, I know and you know that they should take a safety course before they go, but nine out of ten people learn safety at the range as they go along.
When they approach the firing line they see a multitude of signs of "do's and don't's".
"HEARING AND EYE PROTECTION WILL BE WORN AT ALL TIMES!"
"ALL BOLTS WILL BE OPENED AND CHAMBERS EMPTY EXCEPT ON THE FIRING LINE!"
"KEEP WEAPONS POINTED DOWNRANGE AT ALL TIMES!"
"NON SHOOTERS ARE NOT PERMITTED BEYOND THE WHITE LINE WHEN THE FIRING LINE IS HOT!"
"ETC, ETC".
Now, they've been nervous all day thinking about coming out here.
They start trying to assimilate all the rules, and the nervous tension increases considerably.
Right here the range officer can make it or break it.
If he is helpful and courteous he can ease the tension and add a couple of shooters to help our cause.
If he comes across like a DI in bootcamp, he makes the situation worse, and the couple are terrified before they even fire the first round.
More than likely, they'll put their weapons back in their car and never come back.
They'll tell their friends, "I don't shoot. I hate guns!", and we'll have two more gun grabbers to fight for our Second Amendment rights.
I talk gun talk to people every day.
I'm always surprised when someone, usually women, will say, "I don't like guns".
If I can get them to trace it back, they've had a bad experience with guns so they're an enemy forever.
They don't understand guns, and they don't understand people who like guns.
Those are the people we need to reach, and your job at the range is the perfect place to win converts.
I admire you for your courage (yep, it takes courage!) and your dedication to shooting.
I'm always leery about government support for anything, and shooting is no different.
With support comes control, and we have way more than enough of that.
We have visions of strapping their center mass to the ten ring.
It's really kind of puzzling why these range officers would piss us off.
We're the ones with the loaded guns!
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