Swift Boat Accounts Incomplete And Flawed, Clashes Roil Kerry Campaign.

WashingtonPost ^ | 08/22/04 | Michael Dobbs

[Pikamax]

Swift Boat Accounts Incomplete And Flawed Clashes Roil Kerry Campaign

By Michael Dobbs Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, August 22, 2004; Page A01

When John F. Kerry rescued James Rassmann from the Bay Hap River in the jungles of Vietnam in March 1969, neither man could possibly have imagined that the episode would become a much-disputed focus of an American presidential campaign 35 years later.

For Kerry, then a green and gangly Navy lieutenant junior grade and now the Democratic challenger to a wartime Republican president, that tale of heroism under fire has become integral to his campaign. A centerpiece of public rallies, videos and a new campaign advertisement last week, it has helped distinguish the candidate from his Democratic primary rivals and from President Bush, who spent the war at home as a member of the Texas Air National Guard.

[tobyhill]

Everyone should take excerpts and forward them to their local press. Reading this closely it's an admission of lies or stretches of truth. Kerry has claimed the "facts" are from his diary not an unfinished book. This could be damning for Kerry? Make sure to put author and sources.

[jackbill]

"Connection: Michael Dobbs"

Is this the reporter that refused to meet with the swift vets a few weeks ago?

He is the guy who John O'Neill said had refused to meet with them when they were in DC last week. I e-mailed him and he denied it. His e-mail:

Not true. I have spoken to numerous Swift Boat for Truth supporters, and am eager and willing to speak to anyone with first-hand knowledge of these events.

[Aliska]

Much talk about that photo on other threads. There is no satisfactory explanation for the shadows. Maybe someone has the bookmarks for at least two or three threads on it.

There is another photo of the same group, looks like same day and situation, and they have evidently been in existence for some time.

It's difficult to believe that two photos would have been altered.

[farsighted]

The revision is Kerry's boat getting hit by a mine. The first mine couldn't have caused the purple heart injury so a SECOND mine has been added to salvage Kerry's heroism. As shown, this happened further down the river so no one can dispute it. Very clever ... and dishonest.

[sissyjane]

A pretty fair article, and it pushes forward the claim that Kerry should release all of his records. I won't ,however hold my breath.

[tobyhill]

"In his book, Brinkley writes that a skipper who remains friendly to Kerry, Skip Barker, took part in the March 13 raid. But there is no documentary evidence of Barker's participation. Barker could not be reached for comment".

Question; Where is Barker now?

[Oztrich Boy]

What I found interesting was the onlu boat whose movement post postion 5 was not shown was PCF-43.

If it had been following Kerry through the right side of the weir, it;s crew would have been in a position to see Rassmann go overboard, and rescue him (unless PCF-43 had already turned away to assist PCF-3)

While this explains Rassmann's claim that from his position the river was empty as the other boats had "left" (or more accurately, not yet reached his position). It doesn't explain his anxiety that the other boats would run over him.

[Howlin]

That's a very good point.

And where is Kerry's "turn" that he said threw Rassmann off?

[Oztrich Boy]

The graphic shows Alston as the 50 cal gunner. Has it been definitively established that he, rather than Fred Short, was the gunner on 13 March?

Yes. in fact March 13 was the only time Alston was with Kerry in combat. All other testimony from Alston about Kerry's "courage under fire" is based on reports Alston heard from other people (possiibly with initials JFK) or about a different guy (Lt Peck)

[tobyhill]

Kerry refused the request for the interview. That should make the press curious to what he is hiding?

[rolling_stone]

Around this time, crew members said, Kerry decided to go back to help the crippled 3 boat. It is unclear how far down the river Kerry's boat was when he turned around. It could have been anywhere from half a mile to a mile.


Well if they were going full speed, 20-30 knots depending on load on-board..to go a half a mile to one mile would take something like one and a half to three minutes...which in a firefight is a long time..elsewhere I heard kerrys boat hit its own wake and kerry slipped on the loose shells on the deck, causing him to bruise his arm...

What happened to the 5000 METER gauntlet they had to run?

It would be interesting to see how much ammo they used that day, say compared to other days.....there are monthly reports of ammo for the division on the kerry site, I would imaging there might be more detailed reports available..


Here is a pretty good narrative on another deadly ambush a month later....seems the firefight went on for some time and lots of casualties...gives one an idea of what the men were up against in those rivers..

http://www.pcf45.com/sealords/silvermace/silvermace.html http://www.virtualwall.org/dw/WorthingtonRL01a.htm

[rolling_stone]

do you know where it has been positively show Alston was gunner on 3/13?

[sissyjane]

Actually, this is a great article from the Washington Post. Those of you on this thread that are slamming it need to read the entire thing.

I believe that this article will make for interesting Sunday morning talking head shows.

[Petronski]

I've heard of Saturday night 'bulldog' editions of the Sunday paper, but sheesh. I think someone is rushing to feed the Saturday tapings of the Sunday morning talkers.

[DaveMSmith]

Kerry's own bios and Rassman's account impeach each other on this incident.

There is one truth. WaPo is trying to provide backup and support to Kerry's ad. Kerry signing a form 180 would resolve this once and for all.

John Kerry is a traitorous coward.

[Petronski]

That is a fabulously detailed graphical depiction of Kerry's version of events. Too bad it's been discredited.

[Cboldt]

you would sure think that amongst all of those boats that there would be more damage than three 30 cal holes to one boat ...

AFAIK, the after action reports do not note ANY bullet holes. ZERO bullet holes. Do you know of an after action report that notes bullet holes?

[tobyhill]

I agree it's a good article but the discussions from talk show host should coincide with Kerry disclosing his records. A lot of questions will be answered if he did and it may eliminate this round and round. My question to this "incident" on March 13th is, how is it they were under machine gun and small arms fire and only received a questionable 3 bullet holes at best? Bad shot VC?

[spunkets]

"neither man could possibly have imagined that the episode would become a much-disputed focus of an American presidential campaign 35 years later. "

Bozos! VVAW is his heroism under fire. Kerry worked for the enemy after his discharge.

JOE PONDER (wounded 1968): The accusations that John Kerry made against the veterans who served in Vietnam were just devastating ..."

KERRY: "... randomly shot at civilians ..."

PONDER: "... more than any physical wounds I had."

KERRY: "... cut off limbs, blown up bodies ..."

KEN CORDIER (former POW): "That was part of the torture, that you had to sign a statement that you committed war crimes."

KERRY: "... razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan ..."

PAUL GALANTI (former POW): John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and my comrades in the prison camps in North Vietnam took torture to avoid saying."

KERRY: "... crimes committed on a day-to-day basis ..."

CORDIER: "He betrayed us in the past. How could we be loyal to him now?"

KERRY: "... ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam ..."

GALANTI: "He dishonored his country and, more importantly, the veterans he served with. He sold them out."

[Cboldt]

He claims that there was a larger attack with more than just one VC and the VC was a adult.

Kerry's Silver Star citation is based on Kerry "attacking a numerically superior enemy while under withering fire." The point of contentionn is whether or not there was a numerically superior enemy force. The single VC, no matter his age or condition, is not the essential point of contention.

Kerry's Silver Star citation also recites that a score of VC were routed as a direct result of Kerry beaching his boat, just to give an idea of the meaning of "numerical superiority."